[bksvol-discuss] Re: Question about tables
- From: "Sue Stevens" <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 11:33:29 -0500
I have seen PQ books that leave out tables. For instance, they will show a
heading like family tree, and explain how to interpret the tables, but then the
tables that tell the family tree are completely missing. I do not ignore tables
when I proof—I’m just telling what I have seen in PQ books.
Sue S.
From: Madeleine Linares
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:25 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question about tables
Hi all,
Please do not remove tables that existed in the text or add in tables that did
not exist in the text. Scanners should be doing their very best to keep the
scanned file as close to the text as possible, and for this reason, the
proofreader shouldn’t be changing things like tables. The only thing that we do
change from the original text is the font size and bolding of chapter
names/numbers and those other parts/sections/subchapters to allow for
navigation, and we can include a few things for clarity (such as ellipses in
tables of contents or captions and footnotes in brackets).
Those who mentioned replacing tabs with spaces are correct to do so—our
converter removes all extra spaces and reads tabs as one big extra space.
Feel free to email me off-list with questions.
Best,
Madeleine Linares
Volunteer Coordinator
Bookshare, a Benetech Initiative
650-644-3459
madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie Maples
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 1:23 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question about tables
It is the scanner's prerogative how they decide to format text, both are
acceptable, but my comment was that you undid something the scanner
intentionally inserted. A table of contents does not automatically scan is a
table so if someone took the time to create a table, it should be preserved
unless you get their permission to remove it. What you are probably confusing
is how people have alternately agreed upon on how to handle table of contents
which is to put an ellipsis between the chapter name and page number as an
alternative since tabs are not a knowledge by the tool and a single space can
make it hard to read. Still, it is not desirable and difficult for dyslexic
readers when they can go down a straight column. I'm speaking from personal
experience. Smiles.
There are other instances where information is in tables, that it is critical
and be preserved in tables, such as an educational text. It may take a little
more navigating with your speech tools, but it would be utterly unreadable to a
dyslexic student.
We all make compromises to make the books accessible, and often times it means
a lot of give-and-take, but I would never undo a scanners work without their
permission. I hope you understand.
Valerie
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nimit Kaur <kaur.nimit@xxxxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 3:13 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question about tables
Oh.... OK..... But, I didn't do that for my ease thinking for others
ease the same, but I was told to do that and in fact, I have seen it
happen in some of the books I worked on by the scanners. Just
saying....
On 10/27/13, Valerie Maples <vlmaples@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Nimit;
>
> I understand the text is still there, but we put the information in tables
> for reason. It is not easier to follow visually and it can be very confusing
> to adults selects a person when the columns are not aligned in the only way
> to get columns is to place it in a table. Tabs are not recognized as other
> people have mentioned, and you are undoing their work if you are removing
> tables they have put in, not to mention information that is specifically
> meant to be put in tables. Hopefully Madeleine will weigh in, but I would
> not remove tables that a scanner put in without permission or until we are
> told they are no longer desirable or allowed. What might be easier for you
> personally does not mean it is the standard we are currently using. There
> are many concessions that sighted readers and proofreaders have made for
> blind readers and braille users, and you should not change things without
> permission or directives in the manual.
>
> You were very clear, we just disagree.
>
> Valerie
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Nimit Kaur <kaur.nimit@xxxxxxxxx>
>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 2:52 PM
>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question about tables
>>
>>
>>Valarie!
>>I am sorry but I didn't mean to give wrong information here!!!!! With
>>using Jaws, tables are a mess to handle!!! When you convert tables to
>>text, it is not removing the tables, just making it easier to follow.
>>In other words, the text in the table is still present! It is still
>>the same! Just easier, in my opinion. Plus, for the tables of
>>contents,
>>chapter 1 tab tab tab 5 makes it confusing then
>>chapter 1 ... 5
>>Know what I mean? Many scanners I have come across put two or three
>>tabs. I am not trying to ruin their work, plus, that is how I have
>>been told to do by many proofreaders. I hope you know what I mean and
>>maybe somebody else would be more clear. Sorry and thanks!
>>
>>On 10/27/13, Valerie Maples <vlmaples@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Nimit;
>>>
>>> Why would you remove a table that a scanner has taken the time to put in
>>> place? They are acceptable, allowable, and even preferable for many
>>> reading.
>>> I don't understand why you would convert a table to text especially for
>>> something like a table of contents where it can help sighted readers,
>>> especially people with dyslexia, for sorting information. Unless
>>> something
>>> has changed, properly formatted tables are not only considered allowed,
>>> but
>>> desirable.
>>>
>>> Valerie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: Nimit Kaur <kaur.nimit@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 1:43 PM
>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question about tables
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi, Rachel,
>>>>What I have done so far, and bookshare has not returned me for more
>>>>editing, is that convert the tables to text. Are you using Microsoft
>>>>word? I am using Microsoft word 2007 still and that is how I convert
>>>>the tables to text.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWNG QUOTES BY STEVIE WONDER!!!!!!!
>>“JUST BECAUSE A MAN LACKS THE USE OF HIS EYES DOES NOT MEAN HE LACKS
>> VISION!”
>>“JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN’T SEE DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN’T HEAR AND THINK!” “
>>PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE ALSO NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS. THEY CAN DO
>>EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE WITHOUT DISABILITIES CAN DO JUST IN DIFFERENT
>>WAYS ADAPTING TO THE CERTAIN DISABILITY THEY POSSESS.
>>MORE WAYS YOU CAN CONTACT ME:
>>KAUR.NIMIT@xxxxxxxxx
>>KAUR.NIMIT@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>THANK YOU FOR READING MY EMAIL!!!! HAVE A FANTASTIC DAY, AFTERNOON,
>>EVENING OR NIGHT DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN THE WORLD!!
>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
>> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWNG QUOTES BY STEVIE WONDER!!!!!!!
“JUST BECAUSE A MAN LACKS THE USE OF HIS EYES DOES NOT MEAN HE LACKS VISION!”
“JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN’T SEE DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN’T HEAR AND THINK!” “
PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE ALSO NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS. THEY CAN DO
EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE WITHOUT DISABILITIES CAN DO JUST IN DIFFERENT
WAYS ADAPTING TO THE CERTAIN DISABILITY THEY POSSESS.
MORE WAYS YOU CAN CONTACT ME:
KAUR.NIMIT@xxxxxxxxx
KAUR.NIMIT@xxxxxxxxxxx
THANK YOU FOR READING MY EMAIL!!!! HAVE A FANTASTIC DAY, AFTERNOON,
EVENING OR NIGHT DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN THE WORLD!!
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
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