[bksvol-discuss] Paragraph indentations

  • From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:36:58 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Amy,

After people posted that tabs were lost, and that
spaces were annoying, I learned a little more about
how to use Word and found that in the format file,
under paragraph, one can set the first line to indent.
I usually set it for .2 or .3  It does mean that,
whenever the first line of a page is a continuation of
the preceding paragraph and shouldn't be indented, I
have to go back and change the first line to 0 for
that line, but probably that isn't even necessary.
Because I cansee, I'm aware of formatting and spend
too much time, perhaps, making it look like the book,
since people who use Braille and who listen say it
doesn't really matter.

Cindy



--- Amy Goldring Tajalli
<agoldringtajalli@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dear Evan,
> 
> I finally found a solution but am aftraid it will be
> undone  when it goes to 
> whomever gets it for either final [?] validation or
> acceptance as it is not 
> something I remember seeig in bookshare editions but
> it is why I am doin it. 
> I am putting 5 spaces at the beginning of each
> paragraph as I was forewarned 
> that  the final program does not recognize tabs.  I
> t seems to me that 
> bookshare assumes that the reader is blind or with
> minimum sight but many of 
> us have sight but not good enough to read small
> print.  For us, visual 
> cuues  such as pragraphs indentations are more than
> just helpful, especially 
> when combined with a rapid (for me at least) reader.
>  I assume or hope that 
> the italics which are visible in OpenBook and rtf 
> but not in K1000.  They 
> are visual clues which are not acknowledged by the
> reader but are 
> significant and represent information of which the
> blind  reader is deprived 
> as he is of the beginning of quotation and brackets
> which makes no sense to 
> me.
> 
> The question of indentations and line spacing is
> particularly important in 
> poetry and even a poetry teacher cannot always tell
> where the lines end in 
> the way they are printed by bookshare and to srudy
> modern  poetry you 
> reallly need to know the way it is supposed to be
> printed. That is why I am 
> also validating Kipling but as I have that
> functioning in wordpad I need to 
> finish the book I have in openbook while I still
> have it.  There are still 
> 20 days so I will have to stop paying attention to
> my mail or exit the list 
> until I finish or I will have thousands of bookshare
> letters waiting when I 
> finish. But if  I am totally wasting my time and all
> my work is going to be 
> undone please tell me now but either write me at
> agoildring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> or call me at 305-326-1354 at any time day or night.
> Meanwhile, I will be 
> getting rid of the mail from bksvol-discuss  and
> going back and forth to 
> openbook.
> 
> Amy
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 3:35 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Stephen King
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, you went from a superior product,
> K1000, to an inferior 
> > one, OpenBook, in my humble opinion.  This blank
> line problem I have 
> > noticed whenever I converted a book from OpenBooks
> ark, native file 
> > format, to rtf format.  I was unaware that it did
> the blank line adding 
> > thing when going the other way, but it doesn't
> surprise me at all.  Since 
> > most books do not have blank lines between
> paragraphs in general, my 
> > practice when using OpenBook was to eliminate all
> the blank lines by 
> > searching for double hard returns and replacing
> them with single hard 
> > returns.  Of course, since I was reading the book
> anyway, I was able to 
> > add in those relatively much fewer blank lines
> where they needed to be 
> > while reading along.  However, I did all my word
> processing in Word or 
> > WordPad, and so I cannot help you do this in
> OpenBook.  I never considered 
> > editing documents in it, nor would I now even if
> mine were working. 
> > Someone here is bound to know how to do it,
> though, I am sure.
> >
> > You cannot do operator-defined page numbers in
> OpenBook.  I am not sure I 
> > understand what the page numbering problem is that
> you are having, other 
> > than that they start from the beginning of the
> book in OB, and you cannot 
> > tell it where you want to start.
> >
> > It is doubtful that anyone on any mailing list
> reads all of the messages 
> > that come down the cable; and the more lists
> people are on, the smaller 
> > the fraction of messages per list they have time
> to read.  I would venture 
> > to say that anyone who has been on a mailing list
> with as much traffic as 
> > this one, and maybe a few others besides for very
> long, makes friends with 
> > the delete key.  It is either that or be
> overwhelmed.  No one is, or 
> > should feel, obligated to read all of, or even a
> majority of, the messages 
> > on any list, especially if it has as much traffic
> as this one.
> >
> > I did not know that books strewn with blank lines
> was common among 
> > Bookshare books, because I download the brf
> versions which have nary a 
> > blank line, even where there should be one.  As I
> said, blank lines 
> > between every paragraph is not standard in the
> books I have read, although 
> > they can appear occasionally to indicate a change
> of subject, or for other 
> > reasons.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Amy Goldring Tajalli"
> <agoldringtajalli@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:42 AM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Stephen King
> >
> >
> >> Dear Lissi,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I finally
> have Genji in Openbook and 
> >> will finish it if it kills me while I still have
> OpenBook.  I still have 
> >> one problem with it which the powers that be -
> Evan? Jake ? I don't have 
> >> a scorecard so that other than  JBrownell I don't
> know who is whom and is 
> >> there an hierarchy.  I find many of the problems
> I thought I had are gone 
> >> but also gone are such things as page numers that
> match the original. 
> >> Kurzweill made it possible in that I could choose
> which page I wanted as 
> >> page one and all the previous pages were
> "preliminary page #".  Having 
> >> done that, then I kept the blank pages  so that
> the numbers matched the 
> >> page numbers on the book pages.  Now all that is
> gone and instead of 
> >> having a book with 1236 pp more or less I have a
> book with weird numering 
> >> totalling over 2000 pages and instead of
> paragraphs being indented they 
> >> are separate by a blank line which is, I dare
> assume, the reason for the 
> >> length.  Now that fits with the books I have
> downloaded from Bookshare 
> >> and if that is what is preferred I won't try to
> change it but the length 
> >> alone may be intimidating even to someone who is
> not scared off by 1200 
> >> pp. Whatever is preferred I will do just let me
> know.  After the next 22 
> >> days I will have to use either wordperfect - the
> 5.1 or one other of the 
> >> choices or wordpad to validate but I won't quit
> just because I  scan or 
> >> have to really learn one of those programs which
> have been scaring the H. 
> >> out of me.  If so, I will happily take advice in
> my choice as long as the 
> >> advisor can think simple. My rule of thumb is
> kis,. It will help if I can 
> >> find and use some voice.  I tried to download
> Daisy and VRS again but 
> >> there seems to be a problem but I am not going to
> fuss with it now. I am 
> >> going back to Genji and, if there is time,
> Kipling.
> >>
> >> To do this I am going to have to ignore much of
> my mail.  I don't know 
> >> how any of you get anything done with all the
> mail on that list.  If you 
> >> really want to get my attention, mail me at 
> >> agoldringtajalli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Much of the
> bkvol-dcuss mail I can only 
> >> look at the subject and if it is not specifically
> for me or on a topic 
> >> related to what  I am doing I will have to delete
> it unread if I am to 
> >> take advantage of openbook.  As is obvious.  I
> get distracted  and in 
> >> volved and I know I cannot do tha and take
> advantage of openbook. Wish me 
> >> luck and tell me about the pp and paragraphs and
> I will get down to heavy 
> >> duty work.
> >>
> >> Love as always,
> >>
> >> Amy
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:08 AM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Stephen King
> >>
> >>
> >>> Dear Evan,
> >>>
> >>> Amy could be a great asset if she wants to
> validate. I'm not sure if 
> >>> she's actually validated anything, yet, and
> though I don't mean to drag 
> >>> things out for you, I think it might be a good
> idea for us to encourage 
> >>> her to validate a, "easy book,"  as a kind of
> test run. Otherwise, she 
> >>> could have the history volume she's working
> mired in file confusion, 
> >>> etc, for eons. What do you think?
> >>>
> >>> Katie was game for that Star Wars challenge you
> bantered about with 
> >>> Ernie and she knows her way around the process.
> She wouldn't need a 
> >>> trial run and it sounds like she'd enjoy working
> on Tolkien and working 
> >>> with you. I'm guessing she'd take volume one,
> and since you scanned 
> >>> it...
> >>>
> >>> We'll have a fellowship yet!
> >>>
> >>> I'll contemplate a chirpier quote while I give
> Armasted a fair run.
> >>>
> >>> Always with love,
> >>>
> >>> Lissi
> >>>
> >>> "My story is finally out there in the ether, a
> self-sufficient organism 
> >>> beyond my control, changing shape in every new
> mind that absorbs it."
> >>> From The Night Listener, a novel by
> >>> Armistead Maupin
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:52 PM
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Stephen King
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Pratik and Ernie,
> >>>>
> >>>> If I'd read your messages first, I wouldn't
> have launched in to my own 
> >>>> Steven King Spiel. I agree with both of you and
> have added, "Hearts of 
> >>>> Atlantis," to my to read list and will
> investigate the sport's 
> >>>> novelette. I don't even like sports, but a good
> author can do that, 
> >>>> lure you to break new ground.
> >>>>
> >>>> Always with Love,
> >>>>
> >>>> Lissi
> >>>>
> >>>> "My story is finally out there in the ether, a
> self-sufficient organism 
> >>>> beyond my control, changing shape in every new
> mind that absorbs it."
> >>>> From The Night Listener, a novel by
> >>>> Armistead Maupin
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> From: "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:07 AM
> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Stephen King
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Steven King  can be an incredible writer when
> he puts his mind to it. 
> >>>>> A
> >>>>> part of his Dark Tower series is amazing.  He
> loses it when he 
> >>>>> stretches
> >>>>> things too much.  A book such as "Hearts of
> Atlantus," which doesn't 
> >>>>> contain
> >>>>> the strangeness of some of the other books,
> really brings out King's
> >>>>> strengths.  His short stories are wonderful as
> well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pratik
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of k4zq
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 2:34 AM
> >>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Stephen King
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cindy,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Steve felt sorry for Cujo, too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peace,
> >>>>> Ernie
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>>> From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 6:32 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] OT: Stephen King
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I read Cujo and Misery, and I think he's a
> good
> >>>>>> writer, at least in those books. I really
> felt sorry
> >>>>>> for Cujo. It wasn't his fault he went mad.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I also read a book of his short stories and
> thought
> >>>>>> they were well-written. Certainly more so
> than some of
> >>>>>> the popular authors, both mystery and other
> fiction,
> >>>>>> that I've read for bookshare.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cindy
> >>>>>> --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If it put you to sleep, why are you going to
> read
> >>>>>>> the book?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As far as King goes, the two I read were
> Carrie, and
> >>>>>>> The dead Zone.  Carrie was only okay, and
> since it
> >>>>>>> was - I think - his first novel, I cut him
> some
> >>>>>>> slack on that one.  But I was especially
> >>>>>>> disappointed with The Dead Zone.  He didn't
> really
> >>>>>>> do anything interesting with the
> precognition angle
> >>>>>>> compared to what Frank Herbert or Mike
> resnick did
> >>>>>>> with it.  Besides, evil is so banal anyway.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>>>>>   From: k4zq
> >>>>>>>   To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>   Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:30 PM
> >>>>>>>   Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: A Submission
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   The Synopsis put me to sleep.  'Bout as
> good as
> >>>>>>> Cliff Notes.  However, I've read a couple of
> books
> >>>>>>> before, although, not too many, so I think I
>  can
> >>>>>>> muddle through.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Be careful what you say to me.  I got that
> reject
> >>>>>>> button, you know.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Sorry about Steve, Evan.  Apt Pupil is
> just a good
> >>>>>>> addition for education in the dark side.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Peace,
> >>>>>>>   Ernie
> >>>>>>>     ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>>>>>     From: Evan Reese
> >>>>>>>     To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>     Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:57 AM
> >>>>>>>     Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: A
> Submission
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>     It was just the left half of the dust
> jacket!
> >>>>>>> What do you mean long?  It fit in the
> submission
> >>>>>>> form, so maybe you aren't getting enough
> sleep.  I
> >>>>>>> just read through it again in a minute or
> so.  If
> >>>>>>> you're having this much trouble with a
> synopsis, you
> >>>>>>> may not want to tackle a whole book just
> yet. <grin>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>     I read to of King's works, and I wasn't
> >>>>>>> impressed with his writing ability.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>>>>>       From: k4zq
> >>>>>>>       To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>       Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 8:00 AM
> >>>>>>>       Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: A
> Submission
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       Evan!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       Was that synopsis the entire book? 
> Thought
> >>>>>>> I'd never get through it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       I'll go see if somebody already has
> it, and if
> >>>>>>> not, I'll get it, then I can consult with
> you on it
> >>>>>>> if I need.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       Btw, If you Ain't familiar with "Apt
> Pupil,"
> >>>>>>> it's an excellent contribution to your
> development
> >>>>>>> as purely evil.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       Peace,
> >>>>>>>       Ernie
> >>>>>>>         ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>>>>>         From: Evan Reese
> >>>>>>>         To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>         Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006
> 10:25 PM
> >>>>>>>         Subject: [bksvol-discuss] A
> Submission
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         Well, I finally got it up there. 
> The book
> >>>>>>> is called Transcension by Damien Broderick. 
> It is
> >>>>>>> Science Fiction.  I hope the validator reads
> the
> >>>>>>> comments I put in the form.  All of the
> chapter
> >>>>>>> headings, as well as the title and author on
> the
> >>>>>>> title page, are in lower-case letters.  I
> hope
> >>>>>>> whomever doesn't decide that they are errors
> and
> >>>>>>> "fix" them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         Ironically, after all the recent
> talk about
> >>>>>>> validators reading through submissions, I
> hope
> >>>>>>> whoever does this one does the minimum,
> unless they
> >>>>>>> are familiar with the book.  There are a
> number of
> >>>>>>> other peculiarities in the book which might
> be taken
> >>>>>>> as errors if someone doesn't notice their
> >>>>>>> consistency.  For example, the chapter
> headings with
> >>>>>>> Arabic numbers are followed by a space, a
> colon,
> >>>>>>> another space, and then the chapter name,
> whereas
> >>>>>>> those chapters starting with roman numerals
> are
> >>>>>>> followed by a colon without the space.  I
> really
> >>>>>>> enjoyed the book, but it was a lot of work
> to get
> >>>>>>> into shape.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         For any who are interested, here is
> the
> >>>>>>> synopsis from the dust jacket:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         Damien Broderick has been a leading
> >>>>>>> Australian SF writer since the seventies,
> winning
> >>>>>>> numerous awards. His novel The Dreaming
> Dragons was
> >>>>>>> named one of the 100 best SF novels. His
> recent
> >>>>>>> nonfiction book, The Spike, is a
> mind-stretching
> >>>>>>> look at the wonders of the high-tech future.
> Now in
> >>>>>>> Transcension, he brings to life one of the
> high-tech
> >>>>>>> futures he imagined in The Spike, a
> 22nd-century
> >>>>>>> Utopia pervaded by nanotechnology and ruled
> by a
> >>>>>>> benign but coldly objective AI. Transcension
> may be
> >>>>>>> Broderick's best book yet.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         Amanda is a brilliant violinist, a
> >>>>>>> mathematical genius, and a rebel. Impatient
> for the
> >>>>>>> adult status her society only grants at age
> thirty,
> >>>>>>> but determined to have a real adventure
> first, she
> >>>>>>> has repeatedly gotten into trouble and found
> herself
> >>>>>>> in the courtroom of Magistrate Mohammed
> Abdel-Malek,
> >>>>>>> the sole resurrectee from among those who
> were
> >>>>>>> frozen in the early 21st century, the man
> whose mind
> >>>>>>> was the seed for Aleph, the AI that rules
> this
> >>>>>>> Utopia.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         Mathewmark is a real adolescent,
> living in
> >>>>>>> the last place where they still exist, the
> >>>>>>> reservation known as the Valley of the God
> of One's
> >>>>>>> Choice, where those who have chosen faith
> over
> >>>>>>> technology are allowed to live out their
> simpler
> >>>>>>> lives. When Amanda determines that access to
> the
> >>>>>>> valley is the key to the daring stunt she
> plans, it
> >>>>>>> is Mathewmark she will have to lead into
> temptation.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         But just as Amanda, Mathewmark. and
> >>>>>>> Abdel-Malek are struggling to find
> themselves and
> >>>>>>> achieve their potentials, so is Aleph, and
> the AI's
> >>>>>>> success will be a challenge to them and all
> of
> >>>>>>> humanity.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>         No virus found in this incoming
> message.
> >>>>>>>         Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>>>>         Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database:
> >>>>>>> 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>     No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>>>     Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>>>>     Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database:
> 268.11.6/427
> >>>>>>> - Release Date: 8/24/2006
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Do You Yahoo!?
> >>>>>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >>>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
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> >>>>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject line.  To get a 
> >>>>>> list
> >>>>>> of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> itself in the subject 
> >>>>>> line.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- 
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> >>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database:
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> >>>>>> 8/24/2006
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email to
> >>>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
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> >>>>> list of
> >>>>> available commands, put the word 'help' by
> itself in the subject line.
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email to
> >>>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
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> >>>>> list of available commands, put the word
> 'help' by itself in the 
> >>>>> subject line.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email to
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> >>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject line.  To get a 
> >>>> list of available commands, put the word 'help'
> by itself in the 
> >>>> subject line.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
> to
> >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
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> >>> of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> itself in the subject 
> >>> line.
> >>>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
> to
> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject line.  To get a list 
> >> of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> itself in the subject line.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
> to
> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject line.  To get a list 
> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> itself in the subject line.
> > 
> 
>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject
> line.  To get a list of available commands, put the
> word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> 
> 


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  • » [bksvol-discuss] Paragraph indentations