As long as you want feedback here is my feedback. It has always bugged me, even back when I was reading books in print and had never even thought of the technology I am now using to read, that books would start their page numbering on some page other than the first page. After all, aren't those pages before page one pages too? There is nothing, however, that I could ever do about it. In the case of a book that has no indication of where the page numbering begins, though, it seems to me that is an opportunity to do something. In a case like that I would be in favor of starting page one on page one. For one thing, that would illiminate the distraction of Open Book announcing one page while the book it is reading announces another page. It would also illiminate having to keep in mind how many pages Open Book and the book are out of sinc so that I can do the math every time I am inserting a page. "I find capitalism repugnant. It is filthy, it is gross, it is alienating... because it causes war, hypocrisy and competition." Fidel Castro The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com/txtindex.shtml Pathfinder Press: http://www.pathfinderpress.com Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html _ table with 2 columns and 6 rows Subj: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page numbers? Date: 6/2/2009 6:11:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: pavim@xxxxxxxxxxxx Reply-to: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent from the Internet (Details) table end Great question Lori. Let me try and clarify: In some instances there are page numbers in the original text but these numbers just don’t scan. In such cases, if the proofreader has access to information on where the numbering starts, via the volunteer who scanned the book or another source then he/she should follow that numbering system. However, in cases where there are no page numbers in the scanned file and when either the proofreader has no way of obtaining information regarding numbering in the original text or when there are actually no page numbers in the original text then Bookshare guidelines recommend starting page number one with the main content of the book. Basically we would like to have a standardized guideline for inserting page numbers in such cases. That said, we are not attached to this particular approach, and if it makes more sense to have volunteers start page number one with the very first page of the book rather than use roman numerals for pre-chapter 1 pages then we can rewrite the guideline accordingly before finalizing it for the manual. Please let me know what you think (and others please chime in if you have feedback). All good things, Pavi Pavi Mehta Volunteer Coordinator, Bookshare Benetech 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 Palo Alto, CA 94306-1609 USA Phone: +1 650 644-3459 pavim@xxxxxxxxxxxx www.benetech.org The Benetech Initiative - Technology Serving Humanity A Nonprofit Organization . From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lori Castner Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:35 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page numbers? Pavi, I do not understand this guideline: When inserting page numbers in a book that has none please start page number one with the main content of the book. Most books do not start the content with page 1--some start with 3, 5, or 7. If we always start with page 1, then our pagination may well not match the pagination of the print book, so what good is it? Lori C. block quote ----- Original Message ----- From: Pavi Mehta To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:05 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page numbers? Hi All, This thread has been great in that it’s pointed out places where our guidelines for page numbering could use some more detail. Am including here a draft of some insertions that it would be great to have feedback on before finalizing them for the manual. Thanks, Pavi If only every other page is numbered in a book, should I number the left out pages in the scanned file? Yes. In such cases please insert page numbers where they are missing. Guidelines for inserting page numbers in a book that has none: When inserting page numbers in a book that has none please start page number one with the main content of the book. Roman numerals can be used for all pages preceding chapter 1 and for any end matter. Bookshare Guidelines for dealing with Blank Pages: Please retain all blank pages when scanning or proofreading a book for Bookshare. To avoid confusion, all blank pages should be indicated in the following manner: Open square bracket, type the phrase Blank Page, close square bracket. Example: [BLANK PAGE] Should Blank Pages be numbered? Typically blank pages in the original book are not numbered, but are accounted for in pagination. In order to make the approval process more efficient, while proofreading books for Bookshare, please insert page numbers on all blank pages. From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jill O'Connell Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:15 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page numbers? Rick, No wonder your book was such a joy to proofread. block quote ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik James To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:30 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page numbers? The first book I ever submitted I did not know or ever even consider about page numbers. I got a nice email from someone who was proofing asking me what about pages such and such? I wondered to myself at first, what's the big deal, the text is all good, and so on. Then soon I discovered she was correct, there was some missing and some duplicates. So lesson learned. It was quite a learning experience, and ever since I have paid close attention to the page numbers as I scan a book and then look it over to see that it all is there before I submit it. The person who actually has the book in hand can save a lot of worry and problem solving by getting it right at the front end of the project, I believe. One thing I do now is to also look at the page numbers listed in the Table of Contents when the book has one. To check to see if the page numbers for the corresponding chapters fall on that page and that there is a page number. Sometimes there is a blank page at the end of a chapter or between them and it will not have a page number printed but it is part of the pagination. All of the business of how many pages your file has in your unit, that gets sort of strange, and I always just look right away (so to speak, using speech or whatever) to see where pagination begins in the book, with roman num erals, or whatever. They are not always marked, yet may be reflected in the table of contents. So I make sure as best I can that the pagination works all like it is supposed to. And I do move page numbers to the top even if they are at the bottom myself. I know someone said they thought that might be changing too much from the original. I have to say I do not think it does. In fact as a reader, if I hear that the page number is at the end of a page I am usually fooled and am thinking I am starting on the next page. Some good number of books from Bookshare have two page numbers that do not match together in the text. I don't know what is the reason this happens. I do get used to it, but it is a bit confusing and I think, unnecessary if we who submit take on those tasks early on and just pay attention as we go before submitting. If I am out of line, sorry. Just going off what I have experienced thus far in this little wee world of book scanning. Thanks. Rik From: Mayrie ReNae Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:19 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page numbers? Hi Megan, I have noticed that when Amazon gives a page count, it often includes preliminary pages. Perhaps your page count will match if you add the number of preliminary pages, and the number of pages of actual text? Good luck! Mayrie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Megmil85@xxxxxxx Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:11 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page numbers? Yes, that's the one. It seems that the text portion has 164 pages, that's the page count word and my BrailleNote gave me for the part without the front matter but Amazon.com says it should have 176 so I'm not sure what the inconsistency is related to. The book scanned great, no duplications or omissions so I don't know if I should just insert page numbers at the top of each page even though it'll come out shorter than it supposedly should be or if we could/should go through and see what each page starts with. I'm new at this, especially the page number policy, so just tell me what I should do. Oh, can you do me two favors? Can you tell me what was on the title page, they told me I needed to insert one before the copyright when I tried to submit it this morning, how many Roman Numerals there are and how many pages? I want to make sure I get the title page right and maybe Amazon got the page count wrong. Thanks! I loved this book, I have to say. I was surprised and had just gotten it thinking it'd be an easy read, but I really enjoyed it. In a message dated 6/1/2009 6:52:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, amber.wallens@xxxxxxxxx writes: block quote I think I scanned the book you are referring to, if it's Halloween Rain. I have the book if there are any problems. I submitted it before BKS's page number policy. Amber Book blog: http://community.livejournal.com/book_cuddler/ I have accepted a seat in the House of Representatives, and thereby have consented to my own ruin, to your ruin, and to the ruin of our children. I give you this warning that you may prepare your mind for your fate. John Adams E-Mail: amber.wallens@xxxxxxxxx block quote end ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ No virus found in this incoming message. 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