[bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene Breaks

From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:31:34 -0800 (PST)
I put them where they are in the print book,when
they're there. I've figured out that they're there
because printers don't skip lines in those two places.
At other places,  double-spacing in the same books
indicate change of scene or time. 

G.Cindy

--- EVAN REESE <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hmmm, I don't recall any examples off the top of my
> head where I needed to 
> make that decision. But, thinking about it just now,
> I would probably put 
> them at the bottom of the page. No particular
> reason, though, and I don't 
> think it really matters. But if page numbers are not
> at the tops of the 
> pages, the asterisks might be stripped out if you
> put them at the top of the 
> next page. But if the page numbers are at the top,
> then I think it's six of 
> one or a half dozen of the other.
> 
> Evan
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "BlindGeek" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:07 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter
> Headings and Scene 
> Breaks
> 
> 
> > Me, too.  But what about when theyr'e not there
> and you need to put them 
> > in? If it ahppens to occur at the end of a page,
> do you put them at the 
> > bottom of the current page, or at the top of the
> next one when the new 
> > scene begins?
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:15 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers,
> Chapter Headings and Scene 
> > Breaks
> >
> >
> >> In the case where the book has asterisks already
> in it, I just leave them 
> >> where the publisher or the author put them.
> >>
> >> Evan
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "BlindGeek" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:00 AM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers,
> Chapter Headings and Scene 
> >> Breaks
> >>
> >>
> >>> Well, I've got news for you, Cindy.  I used to
> do the same thing.  It 
> >>> hadn't even occurred to me to change this, even
> though I read books and 
> >>> continued to have momentary confusion.  I'm not
> sure why, but one night 
> >>> I was reading and lo and behold, there were
> asterisks at the bottom of 
> >>> the page and voila, a lightbulb went off in my
> head.  (Incidentally, the 
> >>> electric bill that month was quite interesting.
> . . . Okay, actually it 
> >>> wasn't, but I had to make a funny.)
> >>>
> >>> Now, my final question about those asterisks ...
> sometimes they're at 
> >>> the bottom of a page in a book, and sometimes
> they're at the top of a 
> >>> page. Does anybody know if there's a hard and
> fast rule about whether or 
> >>> when the astiersks should be at the top of a
> page where the new scene 
> >>> begins or at the bottom of the page where the
> old scene ends?  For some 
> >>> reason I'm not sure about, I prefer them at the
> top of the page where 
> >>> the new scene begins, but more often I see it at
> the bottom of the old 
> >>> scene's page.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any and all help, you guys rock!
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:05 AM
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers,
> Chapter Headings and Scene 
> >>> Breaks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I am *so* glad that I waited to reply to Eric
> until I
> >>>> finished reading all my mail. Thank you,
> Mayrie, for
> >>>> answering him so promptly and accurately--and
> Eric,
> >>>> you made it relatively easy by figuring
> everything out
> >>>> correctly.
> >>>>
> >>>> And actually, your last paragraph will help me
> to do
> >>>> better validations. Where there are asterisks
> in the
> >>>> print book, I put them in, but where the are
> double
> >>>> spaces to indicate change of scene, I've been
> putting
> >>>> double or triple spaces. Noting that you say
> that that
> >>>> is confusing and asterisks make it easier to
> >>>> understand, henceforth I shall do that with a
> line
> >>>> space before and after. Thank you for the
> information.
> >>>>
> >>>> G.Cindy
> >>>> --- Mayrie ReNae <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Eric!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          You're awesome!  You've got it all
> correct!
> >>>>>  Surround both
> >>>>> page numbers and page breaks with blank lines.
>  So,
> >>>>> your pages will
> >>>>> look like this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Page break
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Page number
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Text on the page
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Next page break.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          You are absolutely right, the
> concensus is
> >>>>> that page numbers
> >>>>> at the tops of pages makes navigation easier.
> >>>>> Putting them at the
> >>>>> tops of pages is not required, but many of us
> do
> >>>>> move them there when
> >>>>> they appear at the bottom.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          Inserting asterisks to denote scene
> changes
> >>>>> is just what
> >>>>> many of us also do.  It's terrific, and
> thoughtful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          Now, as for chapter headings.  I'll
> try not
> >>>>> to wax terribly
> >>>>> verbose on this.  When page numbers appear at
> the
> >>>>> tops of all pages,
> >>>>> your chapter headings will not be deleted. 
> Though
> >>>>> it may not be
> >>>>> perfectly in accordance with the printed book,
> when
> >>>>> just a numeral
> >>>>> indicates a chapter heading, I add the word
> Chapter,
> >>>>> as you
> >>>>> stated.  I do this so that an inexperienced
> >>>>> validator won't
> >>>>> accidentally think that a single character on
> a line
> >>>>> is a scanning
> >>>>> error and remove it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          If, for some reason, you have a book
> in
> >>>>> which the page
> >>>>> numbers appear at the bottoms of pages, and
> you do
> >>>>> not feel inclined
> >>>>> to move them, you can still protect the
> chapter
> >>>>> heading from being
> >>>>> stripped.  Just insert the page number at the
> top of
> >>>>> each page
> >>>>> containing a chapter heading as well as
> leaving it
> >>>>> at the
> >>>>> bottom.  Chapter headings need, also, to be
> >>>>> surrounded by blank
> >>>>> lines.  A page containing a chapter heading
> should
> >>>>> appear like this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Page break
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Page number
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Chapter heading
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Text on the page
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Next page break.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When you treat chapter headings as I have
> described,
> >>>>> the page numbers
> >>>>> at the tops of the pages that you inserted to
> >>>>> protect the chapter
> >>>>> headings may well be stripped.  That's okay,
> because
> >>>>> the page number
> >>>>> is as you left it at the bottom of the page,
> and
> >>>>> your chapter heading
> >>>>> will remain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just to be thorough, in case you choose not to
> move
> >>>>> page numbers at
> >>>>> the bottoms of pages, a page containing text
> and
> >>>>> page number at the
> >>>>> bottom should look like this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Page break
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Text on the page
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Page number
> >>>>> Blank line
> >>>>> Next page break.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry this was such a long note.  Now that
> you've
> >>>>> gotten through it,
> >>>>> the short of it is that you have EXACTLY the
> right
> >>>>> ideas about how to
> >>>>> handle the things that you asked about.  Carry
> on!
> >>>>> And I just love
> >>>>> to work with folks as conscientious, and
> careful as
> >>>>> you are!  Thank you!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peace,
> >>>>> Mayrie
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 01:01 AM 1/18/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>> >Hi.  My name's Eric Troup.  Some of you may
> >>>>> remember me because I
> >>>>> >used to frequent the Bookshare mailing list.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >I've been looking over the submission
> guidelines
> >>>>> for volunteers and
> >>>>> >have a couple questions.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >First, regarding page numbers: I understand
> that we
> >>>>> have to keep the
> >>>>> >page numbers sequential to match the book.  I
> >>>>> assume, therefore,
> >>>>> >that although headers ought to be removed
> (page
> >>>>> headrs, I mean), the
> >>>>> >page number itself should remain.  Is this
> correct?
> >>>>>  Furthermore, if
> >>>>> >the book has page numbers on the bottom of
> each
> >>>>> page, oughtn't we
> >>>>> >put them at the top instead, for ease of
> reference?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >And while on the subject of pages, when I
> look at a
> >>>>> .rtf document
> >>>>> >using Wordpad, there's only a line break
> between
> >>>>> the end of one page
> >>>>> >and the beginning of another.  No real page
> break
> >>>>> at all.  (I
> >>>>> >currently don't have Microsoft Word, but if
> memory
> >>>>> serves, it did in
> >>>>> >fact let you know when you moved onto a new
> page of
> >>>>> an .rtf
> >>>>> >file.)  Should we be putting a blank line
> above and
> >>>>> below the page
> >>>>> >number at the top of a page?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >My next question concerns chapter headings. 
> Once,
> >>>>> I had occasion to
> >>>>> >read the copy of a book I'd submitted after
> it'd
> >>>>> been posted to
> >>>>> >Bookshare, and found to my slight annoyance
> that
> >>>>> the chapter
> >>>>> >headings were missing.  Now, in this book,
> the
> >>>>> chapter heading
> >>>>> >consisted of a number.  That's it.  Just a
> line
> >>>>> with a 1 or 2 or
> >>>>> >what-have-you.  Those lines were, apparently,
> being
> >>>>> deleted
> >>>>> >automatically because I made sure I put them
> in.
> >>>>> (The book as
> >>>>> >scanned had no headings at all either, but I
> know
> >>>>> having read other
> >>>>> >books in the same series with an Optacon that
> the
> >>>>> chapter number is
> >>>>> >there, it's just enclosed in a graphic which
> the
> >>>>> OCR software can't
> >>>>> >usually read.  In my recent submissions, I
> solved
> >>>>> this problem
> >>>>> >thusly: if the chapter heading was "1," I'd
> write
> >>>>> "Chapter 1" in its
> >>>>> >place.  If the heading was "One," I'd wrie
> "Chapter
> >>>>> One"
> >>>>> >instead.  Should I stop doing this?  Is that
> >>>>> considered editing an
> >>>>> >author's work?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >My final question involves scene breaks which
> are
> >>>>> normally
> >>>>> >designated with a double-space in printed
> material.
> >>>>>  Reading
> >>>>> >Bookshare books, I've sometimes found it
> jarring,
> >>>>> trying to figure
> >>>>> >out what's going on.  Obvoiusly, context
> usually
> >>>>> shows me that a new
> >>>>> >scene has started, but sometimes that takes a
> >>>>> paragraph or two,
> >>>>> >particularly if the previous scene ended with
> >>>>> dialogue and the new
> >>>>> >scene begins with dialogue.  I noticed that
> in
> >>>>> printed works, when a
> >>>>> >scene ends at the end of a page, the scene is
> shown
> >>>>> to be ending
> >>>>> >with three asterisks on an otherwise blank
> line ("*
> >>>>> * *").  So, I
> >>>>> >took it upon myself to simply insert these
> >>>>> asterisks into a book
> >>>>> >where there was normally a double-space
> between
> >>>>> scenes.  I find
> >>>>> >that, for myself, this makes the experience
> of
> >>>>> reading a book with a
> >>>>> >speech synthesizer much easier, since I don't
> have
> >>>>> to distract
> >>>>> >myself from the story long enough to figure
> out why
> >>>>> what I'm reading
> >>>>> >doesn't make much sense.  Similar to my
> question
> >>>>> about chapter
> >>>>> >headings, is my inserting the asterisks
> considered
> >>>>> editing the
> >>>>> >author's work?  Should I stop doing this in
> my
> >>>>> Bookshare submissions?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >Thanks.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email to
> >>>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject
> >>>>> line.  To get a list of available commands,
> put the
> >>>>> word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> WISH LIST (called Requested Additions To The
> Bookshare Collection)is 
> >>>> available at
> >>>>
>
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
> >>>> http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
> >>>>
>
http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm
> >>>>
> >>>> www.jbrownell.com for miscellaneous and useful
> threads
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
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> >
> > 
> 
>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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> 


WISH LIST (called Requested Additions To The Bookshare Collection)is available 
at  
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm

www.jbrownell.com for miscellaneous and useful threads


      
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References:
- [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene Breaks
  - From: EVAN REESE
[bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene Breaks

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