[bksvol-discuss] Re: Old FR Discussion

  • From: "Tiffany H. Jessen" <tjessen@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 16:31:31 -0400

I'm sorry, I got this message at work yesterday and rather than forwarding it 
home for later I left it here until I could get back to it. That time 
apparently didn't happen for a while. I tried to write this clear, but who 
knows what people'll think. Maybe Jake could put it up on his site, or at least 
some better variation of it.

I honestly don't know what is causing your problem with the blank page and odd 
columns in the other. In fact I am fortunate enough not to have even seen this 
before. I however, may not be using the same version of Kurzweil as you. 
Depending on which computer I am using, I still only use version eight and 
  Now, as that you said rescanning it usually produces better results, there is 
a way to rerecognize a page without physically rescanning it. This is good 
because you can put Kurzweil in continuous scanning mode and scan a whole 
cluster of  pages, then later when you are cleaning up the scanning errors you 
don't have to keep counting and flipping pages forward and backwards to find 
the page which needs to be fixed. 
  To do this you have to first make sure Kurzweil is set to keep images. 
  Do this by going into the settings menu with alt T, then arrow down and enter 
on general, or activate it directly with the letter g. A dialogue box will 
open, so tab a few times until you hear the word images, followed by a few 
words of some kind. On this computer I have Kurzweil version nine, and the 
number of times I need to tab is four. What it says after the word images is 
dependant on what setting you have it set on. Pushing space will cycle between 
the three settings, enabled, disabled, or poorly recognized. enabled keeps the 
images, disabled leaves them out, and poorly recognized only leaves the ones 
which it thinks are poorly recognized. I usually prefer to keep them just in 
case I need them later. Note: when it is set to keep the images, this is just 
kept somewhere in the background or something, and say if you scanned a 
children's book with pictures, those images will not appear in your document. 
Once you have enabled the setting, of course tab to the ok button and push 
  Now, You don't have to, but what I did was save the settings so that I don't 
have to reenable them each time I go to scan something new. 
  Now you scan your books as usual, and if at some point you want to 
rerecognize a page, go to the scan menu with alt s, then arrow down and push 
enter on rerecognize page, or use the letter c.
  That is all there is to the process, however I do have a few additional 
  First, if you save the file in any format other than .kes, the images again 
are stripped, or at least they are unavailable to rerecognize pages with. 
  As that .kes has other advantages like remembering where you left off 
reading, I usually like to save it in .kes first, then I can spend as many days 
I want rerecognizing and editing the book without having to search for my 
place. Later, if I want to submit it to bookshare I save it as a .rtf so that 
more validaters are able to access it. 
  This now of course means there are two copies of the same book saved (one in 
each of two formats), so later I go back and delete one of the copies.
  Hopefully this is clear. If you have any other questions or need further 
explination feel free to ask. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bud Schwab 
  To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 11:32 AM
  Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Old FR Discussion


  Thanks for the info.  I think I have the column turned off most of the time 
while scanning a book.  This problem I speak of seems to be a little different. 
 The scanner announces the page seems to be blank and when I look, there is 
indeed a blank page but the opposite page has all that business about line one 
and line two etc.  If I rescan again right away without changing a thing it 
will often read both pages properly.  It's kind of baffling and I never have 
found the cause.
  No, I didn't realize you could redo a page without rescanning the actual 
page.  If it's not too much for my simple mind I would be interested in hearing 
the particulars.

  At 05:52 AM 5/9/2006, you wrote:

    Hi Bud,
    I believe Donna was talking about a stand-alone version of Fine reader, 
where as I thought you used it from within Kurzweil. If in fact you are not 
using Kurzweil ignore this message, but if so, you can easily turn columns mode 
on and off. 
    I believe the original setting for columns mode is on, and while that is 
good to have on for textbooks, newspapers, and magazines, you don't need it on 
for our typical non-fiction or fiction book. In fact, for things like table of 
contents you specifically want it turned off. 
    For example, if columns mode were on when scanning a table of contents you 
would probably hear chapter one, chapter two, chapter three, chapter four, and 
so on, followed by 1, 17, 32, 50, and so on. It's not purposefully butchering 
it, but yet is reading down the first column followed by the second, which is 
of course what you do want it to do in magazines and other things formatted 
that way. In our case we would now have no way to know which page number 
correlated to which chapter number, so what you do is turn off columns mode 
before scanning, and then instead of reading down the columns it will now read 
across the row like chapter one, 1, chapter two, 17, chapter three, 32, chapter 
four, 50.
    To turn it off or back on again push the six on the numeric keypad. 
Kurzweil will announce the status of the setting as you change it in either 
    Finally, Did you know you could change the setting and rerecognize a page 
without actually having to find the printed page and rescanning it? 
    I won't bother to write the steps unless you want me to, but this is yet 
another great advantage of Kurzweil over OpenBook. Or, at least it was the last 
time I did a good strong comparison. That admittedly was a while ago, so things 
may have changed since then.

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Bud Schwab 

      To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

      Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:08 PM

      Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Old FR Discussion

      Hi Donna and gang,

      I guess the reader you are referring to as f r is fine engine.  I am 
having trouble with a page every once in a while going to columns and reading 
down calling each line  as it goes.  I think that's what you are referring to.  
I hadn't pinpointed it to a particular reading engine.  I wonder if they all do 
it at times and why they do.  I read mostly using one of the scansoft engines 
and get good results mostly but have two particular problems.  One is of course 
this column thing. the other thing is that it puts a space in the middle of a 
word occasionally, and also runs two words together without the required space. 
 Any ideas as to how to eliminate these?  And I didn't quite follow what you 
did with fine engine to eliminate the column stuff.  Whatever it is maybe it 
will work with the other reading engines also.  Hope that's clear.  I do most 
of my scanning for Bookshare so I like to have it come out the best possible.


      Bud Schwab

      At 07:42 PM 5/8/2006, you wrote:

        Hi all.

        A few months ago when we were discussing FR8 and it's virtues and 
challenges, someone was talking about a problem with it seeing pages as a text 
box/column/table and looking for solutions to this problem.  It was shortly 
after his that I had computer problems and a lot of work to get done for my 
job, so I just let all this slide for a while.  Last weekend I revived FR7 and 
started scanning again, and was surprised to find myself with the same problem 
of pages appearing as text boxes/columns/tables.  It was every other page.  

        Anyway, I know that I wasn't having this problem previously, so I 
started investigating its source.  Thanks to whoever saved my lengthy post 
about settings for FR and posted it to the tips web site, I discovered that 
there was one setting that was off.  There is a drop-down box where you can 
choose format layout to retain.  Retain full page layout is the default and it 
is the one that creates the problem.  The selection directly under this is 
Retain font and font size, and with this selected, you retain the general page 
layout without the table problem.  

        I'd be interested to know if this fixes the problem for FR8 as I never 
bought the upgrade.

        Peace and Hope,


        __________ NOD32 1.1275 (20051103) Information __________

        This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.



      Bud Schwab               

      W 6 Z Y P

      Malibu, California


    __________ NOD32 1.1275 (20051103) Information __________

    This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
  Bud Schwab               
  W 6 Z Y P
  Malibu, California

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