[bksvol-discuss] Re: OT spelling -- was Re: Question for Braille Readers
- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:08:04 -0500
Could we please not go off on this tangent. There is too high a volume
of mail already. It is important, but it does wander a bit.
Cindy Lou
Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Delzer" <curtis@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:29 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT spelling -- was Re: Question for
Braille Readers
Such truth, I wonder also, since the Meriam dictionary actually wants
to
sanction such words as orientated, which, just aren't proper English.
gag!
Curtis Delzer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <mlsestak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:22 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] OT spelling -- was Re: Question for Braille
Readers
That's sad to hear, but with instant messaging and email, spelling may
be a lost art among all of the next generation. I wonder what
standard
English will look like in thirty years.
Misha
Shelley L. Rhodes wrote:
> Even my full time braille users are horrible spellers, and it isn't
> for a
> want of me trying for them to improve either!
>
>
> Shelley L. Rhodes M.A., VRT, CTVI
> and Guinevere, Golden lady Guide
> juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> Graduate Alumni Association Board
> www.guidedogs.com
>
> More than Any other time, When i hold a beloved book in my hand, my
> limitations fall from me, my spirit is free.
> - Helen Keller
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:53 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
>
>
> Hi Cindy,
>
> Poor spelling is certainly not limited to blind
> people. Blind people just have to work harder to spell well in
> these
> days of speech. I wish I could say that I'm a stellar speller. I'm
> not, but I do want not to be a poor one, so make the effort to
> attend
> to my spelling better.
>
> Peace,
> Mayrie
>
> At 06:37 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>
>> OOOOOOO, Mary, good job! I hadn't even thought of that aspect of
>> it.
>> Lots of people learn to write braille by how they read it; that is
>> an
>> important point in itself. They cement their braille knowledge and
>> spelling, too, by what they see whether with fingers, I think, or
>> with
>> eyes. I think in this day of speech, which is lovely, we endanger
>> them
>> of having compromised spelling and braille reading ability.
>> Although
>> while we are on the topic, I am seeing a lot of sighted folk saying
>> that they would like to write personnels rather than personals, and
>> that you should definately do this or that.
>>
>> Cindy Lou the Cranky
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:23 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
>>
>>
>> Hi Cindy,
>>
>> Well, we're both old and cranky then. I don't know why
>> people are willing to compromise proper punctuation when making it
>> come out correctly in both print and braille takes only a couple of
>> seconds when validating a file. Contrary to what people seem to
>> think, it is not incorrect in print to represent the em dashes as
>> double hyphens. We are just lucky enough these days to have them
>> be
>> a punctuation mark that our word processing software can insert.
>> And
>> yes, Darrell may know what the hyphen is supposed to mean in the
>> place of an em dash, but does everyone, especially every young
>> reader? Do you want young kids to read NLS web braille books
>> punctuated correctly and then bookshare books punctuated
>> incorrectly,
>> and wonder which punctuation mark she is supposed to use in her own
>> writing, when you as validators could clear that up easily?
>>
>> And, if we're talking about things like that, do you know how many
>> times I see in books now and on e-mail lists the word "then" used
>> where the word "than" should have been used? An example of what I
>> see in this case would be: "I like milk better then water." How
>> many
>> people misspell there their and they're? That happens in the blind
>> community because too many people didn't read enough braille to
>> know
>> the differences. Now, we want to give them inaccurate braille too,
>> when making it accurate takes less than thirty seconds to
>> accomplish
>> while validating a book?
>>
>> This is a subject that I hope gets resolved. Otherwise, you all
>> are
>> going to hear me rant about sloppiness and laziness and
>> compromising
>> the educations of blind children for years to come. And you'll
>> want
>> to tell me to put a sock in it. And I won't. I believe in
>> educating
>> our children properly. It's difficult enough to find blind people
>> who can spell. And now you want to make them think that an em dash
>> is a hyphen too?
>>
>> Okay, I'll shut up now, for this round.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Mayrie
>>
>> At 03:47 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>> Excuse me, but why is that compromising the book. In the rules of
>>> NLS,
>>> they say that when the book was being transcribed it wasn't always
>>> easy to tell which it was, but if it would fit that -- requirement
>>> it
>>> should be used. That's more or less a paraphrase, and I can't tell
>>> you
>>> exactly where. It doesn't compromise the print book in any way.
>>> Personally, I cringe when I see it any other way, but then again
>>> I'm
>>> old and cranky. LOL.
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <darrell.shandrow@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 5:39 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Allison,
>>>
>>> My take on this may be a bit different than most Braille readers.
>>> I
>>> do not
>>> feel it is a good idea to compromise the formatting of the print
>>> book
>>> for
>>> the sake of Braille translation, especially when it is not
>>> absolutely
>>> necessary to do so. We Braille readers know what is intended even
>>> when only
>>> a single dash appears.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Allison Hilliker" <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:25 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
>>>
>>>
>>> Sue, Thanks for the info. It's good to know how NLS does their
>>> dashes. So,
>>> then my next question is, what does everyone prefer? Should I
>>> create
>>> double
>>> dashes as NLS does, or simply leave things as is?
>>>
>>> Either is fine with me as replacing em dashes won't take too much
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Allison
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:22 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Allison,
>>>>
>>>> What the National Library Service does in their Braille books is
>>>> to
>>>> use
>>>> two
>>>> hyphens or dashes where the em dash would be. For example, in
>>>> this
>>>> word--word. But people have been leaving them as they appear in
>>>> the
>>>> book,
>>>> and you are right, they translate to a single hyphen or dash. So
>>>> when we
>>>> do
>>>> that, the hyphen or single dash and the em dash look the same.
>>>>
>>>> In Word, when I have a file with em dashes in it, they look like
>>>> a
>>>> capitalized dash or hyphen on my Braille display. It has dots 7
>>>> and
>>>> 8, so
>>>> it looks like dots 3, 6, and 8.
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> Sue S.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Allison Hilliker" <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:39 PM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Question for Braille Readers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Quick question for Braille-readers. I do read Braille myself,
>>>> but
>>>> I've
>>>> never paid attention to this issue before. I'm validating a book
>>>> with a
>>>> lot
>>>> of em dashes. They look like this. - They usually connect two
>>>> words
>>>> like
>>>> this. word1-word2. They do not usually have spaces around them.
>>>> In
>>>> the
>>>> past I have left them as is in the books I validate.
>>>>
>>>> My question is, should I be doing anything special with the em
>>>> dashes in
>>>> order to make them easily read in Braille? I've never known
>>>> there
>>>> to be a
>>>> special Braille character for the em dash, but there may be one.
>>>> Does it
>>>> just look
>>>> like a regular dash, or something else? Do they appear with
>>>> spaces
>>>> around
>>>> them or not? Would most of you prefer me to add spaces, change
>>>> the
>>>> em
>>>> dashes to regular dashes, leave them alone, or something else?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any feedback you can give.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Allison
>>>>
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>>>>
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>
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