Could we please not go off on this tangent. There is too high a volume of mail already. It is important, but it does wander a bit. Cindy Lou Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis Delzer" <curtis@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT spelling -- was Re: Question for Braille Readers Such truth, I wonder also, since the Meriam dictionary actually wants to sanction such words as orientated, which, just aren't proper English. gag! Curtis Delzer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <mlsestak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:22 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] OT spelling -- was Re: Question for Braille Readers That's sad to hear, but with instant messaging and email, spelling may be a lost art among all of the next generation. I wonder what standard English will look like in thirty years. Misha Shelley L. Rhodes wrote: > Even my full time braille users are horrible spellers, and it isn't > for a > want of me trying for them to improve either! > > > Shelley L. Rhodes M.A., VRT, CTVI > and Guinevere, Golden lady Guide > juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc. > Graduate Alumni Association Board > www.guidedogs.com > > More than Any other time, When i hold a beloved book in my hand, my > limitations fall from me, my spirit is free. > - Helen Keller > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:53 PM > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers > > > Hi Cindy, > > Poor spelling is certainly not limited to blind > people. Blind people just have to work harder to spell well in > these > days of speech. I wish I could say that I'm a stellar speller. I'm > not, but I do want not to be a poor one, so make the effort to > attend > to my spelling better. > > Peace, > Mayrie > > At 06:37 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >> OOOOOOO, Mary, good job! I hadn't even thought of that aspect of >> it. >> Lots of people learn to write braille by how they read it; that is >> an >> important point in itself. They cement their braille knowledge and >> spelling, too, by what they see whether with fingers, I think, or >> with >> eyes. I think in this day of speech, which is lovely, we endanger >> them >> of having compromised spelling and braille reading ability. >> Although >> while we are on the topic, I am seeing a lot of sighted folk saying >> that they would like to write personnels rather than personals, and >> that you should definately do this or that. >> >> Cindy Lou the Cranky >> >> Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:23 PM >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers >> >> >> Hi Cindy, >> >> Well, we're both old and cranky then. I don't know why >> people are willing to compromise proper punctuation when making it >> come out correctly in both print and braille takes only a couple of >> seconds when validating a file. Contrary to what people seem to >> think, it is not incorrect in print to represent the em dashes as >> double hyphens. We are just lucky enough these days to have them >> be >> a punctuation mark that our word processing software can insert. >> And >> yes, Darrell may know what the hyphen is supposed to mean in the >> place of an em dash, but does everyone, especially every young >> reader? Do you want young kids to read NLS web braille books >> punctuated correctly and then bookshare books punctuated >> incorrectly, >> and wonder which punctuation mark she is supposed to use in her own >> writing, when you as validators could clear that up easily? >> >> And, if we're talking about things like that, do you know how many >> times I see in books now and on e-mail lists the word "then" used >> where the word "than" should have been used? An example of what I >> see in this case would be: "I like milk better then water." How >> many >> people misspell there their and they're? That happens in the blind >> community because too many people didn't read enough braille to >> know >> the differences. Now, we want to give them inaccurate braille too, >> when making it accurate takes less than thirty seconds to >> accomplish >> while validating a book? >> >> This is a subject that I hope gets resolved. Otherwise, you all >> are >> going to hear me rant about sloppiness and laziness and >> compromising >> the educations of blind children for years to come. And you'll >> want >> to tell me to put a sock in it. And I won't. I believe in >> educating >> our children properly. It's difficult enough to find blind people >> who can spell. And now you want to make them think that an em dash >> is a hyphen too? >> >> Okay, I'll shut up now, for this round. >> >> Peace, >> Mayrie >> >> At 03:47 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote: >> >>> Excuse me, but why is that compromising the book. In the rules of >>> NLS, >>> they say that when the book was being transcribed it wasn't always >>> easy to tell which it was, but if it would fit that -- requirement >>> it >>> should be used. That's more or less a paraphrase, and I can't tell >>> you >>> exactly where. It doesn't compromise the print book in any way. >>> Personally, I cringe when I see it any other way, but then again >>> I'm >>> old and cranky. LOL. >>> >>> Cindy Lou >>> >>> Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <darrell.shandrow@xxxxxxxxx> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 5:39 PM >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers >>> >>> >>> Hi Allison, >>> >>> My take on this may be a bit different than most Braille readers. >>> I >>> do not >>> feel it is a good idea to compromise the formatting of the print >>> book >>> for >>> the sake of Braille translation, especially when it is not >>> absolutely >>> necessary to do so. We Braille readers know what is intended even >>> when only >>> a single dash appears. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Allison Hilliker" <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:25 PM >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers >>> >>> >>> Sue, Thanks for the info. It's good to know how NLS does their >>> dashes. So, >>> then my next question is, what does everyone prefer? Should I >>> create >>> double >>> dashes as NLS does, or simply leave things as is? >>> >>> Either is fine with me as replacing em dashes won't take too much >>> time. >>> >>> Best, >>> Allison >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:22 PM >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Allison, >>>> >>>> What the National Library Service does in their Braille books is >>>> to >>>> use >>>> two >>>> hyphens or dashes where the em dash would be. For example, in >>>> this >>>> word--word. But people have been leaving them as they appear in >>>> the >>>> book, >>>> and you are right, they translate to a single hyphen or dash. So >>>> when we >>>> do >>>> that, the hyphen or single dash and the em dash look the same. >>>> >>>> In Word, when I have a file with em dashes in it, they look like >>>> a >>>> capitalized dash or hyphen on my Braille display. It has dots 7 >>>> and >>>> 8, so >>>> it looks like dots 3, 6, and 8. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> >>>> Sue S. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Allison Hilliker" <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:39 PM >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Question for Braille Readers >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> Quick question for Braille-readers. I do read Braille myself, >>>> but >>>> I've >>>> never paid attention to this issue before. I'm validating a book >>>> with a >>>> lot >>>> of em dashes. They look like this. - They usually connect two >>>> words >>>> like >>>> this. word1-word2. They do not usually have spaces around them. >>>> In >>>> the >>>> past I have left them as is in the books I validate. >>>> >>>> My question is, should I be doing anything special with the em >>>> dashes in >>>> order to make them easily read in Braille? I've never known >>>> there >>>> to be a >>>> special Braille character for the em dash, but there may be one. >>>> Does it >>>> just look >>>> like a regular dash, or something else? Do they appear with >>>> spaces >>>> around >>>> them or not? Would most of you prefer me to add spaces, change >>>> the >>>> em >>>> dashes to regular dashes, leave them alone, or something else? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any feedback you can give. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Allison >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get >>>> a >>>> list >>>> of >>>> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject >>>> line. >>>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get >>>> a >>>> list >>>> of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>>> subject >>>> line. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get >>> a >>> list of >>> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject >>> line. >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get >>> a >>> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>> subject line. >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get >>> a >>> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>> subject line. >>> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >> subject line. >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >> subject >> line. >> > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a > list > of > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject > line. > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.