[bksvol-discuss] Re: OK, gang, got a weird one!

  • From: Donna Goodin <goodindo@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:16:34 -0400

Hi bob,

There's a difference between changing thee and thou to you, versus differently 
printied letters to the letter that they actually represent.  In the first 
case, you're going from old to modern English.  There are editions of many 
older texts--including shakespeare--that are modernized in that way to make for 
easier reading for younger students and lay people.  But a scholar would never 
use a modernized text in his or her research. In the case of the letter s that 
looks like an F, no one, either modern or period would have pronounced the 
letter as an f.  No one for example would have said fifter rather than sister.  
The issue in this case has to do with how letters were printed, rather than 
there actually being a different letter and/or pronunciation.  So to leave the 
F as an F would actually misrepresent the text in a way.
Best,
Donna 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob <rwiley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:08 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OK, gang, got a weird one!

That's a good question Mike.

I would opt for literal translation of the book, perhaps some transcriber 
notes might help.

Someone might be using these books for research where accuracy is important 
It's kind of like someone scanning Shakespeare and saying "all those thees 
and thous don't sound like English, so I changed them to your and you."

Just my take on it.

Bob

"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder 
what else you could do while you're down there." George Burns.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike" <mlsestak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:58 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OK, gang, got a weird one!


>I don't know about Spanish, but I have some books of early American essays 
>where a double s looked like a sort of stretched out double f (and I think 
>there were some other cases where an individual s would have the stretched 
>out f).  I was intrigurd so I went to an online forum on typography and 
>asked about these letters.  The folks on the forum said, yes, that is how 
>such things were printed in the U.S. at that time.  The same was true for 
>German, but there the double s eventually morphed into the letter that 
>looks like a Greek beta.  At least that's what I was told.  The real puzzle 
>here, since many bookshare readers use speech, should the text look right, 
>or should it sound right.  I don't think there is a perfect answer here 
>(though I like the "if it's good enough for a dissertation...").
>
> Misha
>
> Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx wrote:
>> I don't think it was universal. Germanic script, even though using a 
>> Roman alphabet, was significantly different. English, even though it was 
>> a Germanic language itself, used a Latinate script as a hangover from the 
>> Norman conquest. Also, that s instead of an f was not really an s. It 
>> looked very similar to an s and I imagine that might have something to do 
>> with it being changed, but if you could see it you would be able to tell 
>> it from an s. I did not make a habit of looking at antiquated English 
>> scripts before I lost my eyesight, so I don't remember about the u and v, 
>> but I would suspect that that u was not quite a u either. That could be 
>> settled, though, by someone with eyesight just taking a look at it and 
>> telling us.
>>
>>                                                           "If you tremble 
>> with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine." Che 
>> Guevara
>>              The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com/txtindex.shtml 
>> <http://wwww.themilitant.com>Pathfinder Press: 
>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>> Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>              _
>>
>> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>> Subj: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OK, gang, got a weird one!   Date: 7/13/2009 
>> 3:50:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time  From: kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx  Reply-to: 
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx  To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx  Sent from 
>> the Internet
>> (Details) table end
>>
>> Hi, gang, Just a comment from Kim here. During the seventeenth century, 
>> the word "wave" would be spelled W-A-u-e. I also noticed that in the 
>> eighteenth
>> century, the letter S would be written with a letter F. Apparently what 
>> happened with old Spanish affected Early modern English as well. H'mm! I 
>> wonder
>> if this orthography was universal throughout western Europe? Regards, Kim 
>> aka Ellinder.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:09 AM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] OK, gang, got a weird one!
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I’m working on The Lady in Blue by Javier Sierra.  At the end of the book 
>> is a document written in old Spanish.  Some of the “abnormalities” are 
>> standard
>> orthographic conventions of the period, things like using the letter u 
>> where in modern Spanish there would be a V.  others are the result of the 
>> font. So, for instance,  the letter S looks like an F.  This also is 
>> typical of period texts.  My question: Should I correct/modernize it, or 
>> should I leave
>> it?  One option would be to correct font issues, but leave the period 
>> orthography intact.   There is an English translation following the 
>> Spanish text.
>> I appreciate any input.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Donna
>>
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