[bksvol-discuss] Re: More questions on end notes (was Re: Re: End Notes)

  • From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 22:51:18 -0400

#
I don't know, but I don't think so. It would not change the text of the book. It would only rearrange it to make it more accessible. We already do some rearranging anyway, like moving insert pictures along with their captions to the back of the book or placing the caption of an illustration on the same page in a place that will cause the least disruption to the flow of the text.
On 10/29/2013 10:46 PM, john.falter wrote:
Hi Roger:
Wouldn't that violate the concept of not changing the book?

    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* Roger Loran Bailey <mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
    *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *Sent:* Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:28 PM
    *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: More questions on end notes (was
    Re: Re: End Notes)

    #
    Let me offer this comment with little hope that it will be acted
    on because it runs counter to all practice until now and, besides,
    as a volunteer I can imagine that it would be a lot of trouble for
    either the submitter or proofreader. As a formerly sighted reader
    I know that footnotes at the bottom of the page are no problem
    because the eyes can flick down to the bottom for reading the
    footnote and then flick back to the right place in the text with
    an interruption hardly being noticed. Whenever the footnote was
    invented I expect that was the rationale behind putting them there
    in the first place. In more recent decades end notes have become
    more popular though. I think I can see why. It would be a lot
    easier on the typesetter. I never liked them though. Upon coming
    across the first indication of an endnote it required holding
    one's place and searching through the book for the end notes. Then
    if one was going to read more than one endnote in context one
    would have to hold one's finger at the end notes page and keep
    flipping back and forth as one would come across them. It can be
    hardly said that something like that is a hardly noticeable
    interruption. For someone who uses a screen reader, though,
    haveing footnotes at the bottom of the page can be as bad or worse
    than the end notes are to a sighted reader. You run across a
    footnote. To read it in context you have to navigate to the bottom
    of the page and then find your way back to where you left off. If
    there are multiple footnotes at the bottom of the page this can
    become terribly tedious. For that reason I have just stopped even
    trying to read them in context. I just let my screen reader read
    and then read the footnotes whenever they come along. I would
    really prefer to have them inserted in the text at the point to
    which they are referred, perhaps enclosed in some kind of brackets
    - braces? - so that they could be read in context without an
    effort to read them in context. On the other hand, I am not so
    sure that I would want the job of moving all footnotes and end
    notes to that position.
    On 10/28/2013 6:15 PM, Cindy Rosenthal wrote:
     Here's what I copied and saved so I'd have a ever-reader
    reminder:  (I'm also including also the em-dash instructions) In
    text Put space, asterisk, the number, and another space after the
    number. That's when the footnote number is in the same font as
    the text. You-don't have to do that if you make them superscript,
    and neither superscript nor the alternative is preferable but you
    have to be consistent. As a sighted person I prefer superscript,
    and when I'm proofing it makes it easier for me to find them, to
    be sure I haven't missed any; unfortunately, in the 800-page book
    I've almost finished I started the other way, and when I asked if
    it was required I was told what I've said here, so I had to
    continue; I'll use superscript in  my next book. Too often the
    scans come to  with the footnote numbers in the same type  as the
    text but placed not accurately on a line above (that's also an
    option, if I recall correctly,  (I hasten to add here that in
    Larry's scans they are always perfectly placed; and he even seems
to be going to the extra trouble to do the space asterisk ... instead of leaving that for the proofer

    HTH
    Cinndy


    On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Judy s.
    <cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
    wrote:

        Hi Madeleine,

        I think I need a little more clarification. smile.

        When the footnote number remains in the text as normal size
        or in superscript, do you want a space in front of it, to
        separate it from the text that it's by, or not?  So, for
        example, would it be:

        This sentence has a footnote number.1 This is the next
        sentence in the text.
        or
        This sentences has a footnote number. 1 This is the next
        sentence in the text.

        Also, at the bottom, if the footnote is contained within
        square brackets, do the outsourcers and in house staff add in
        the word footnote: (or footnotes) right after the left
        bracket to indicate that the following text is a footnote, or
        not?  So, for example, is it:

        [Footnotes:
        1. This is footnote number one.
        2. This is footnote number two.]

        or

        [1. This is footnote number one.
        2. This is footnote number two.]

        Thanks!

        Judy s.
        On 10/28/2013 2:34 PM, Madeleine Linares wrote:

        Hi all,

        I’m very sorry for the confusion. I’m working to update the
        instructions as they are inaccurate and out of date. Please
        do not put parentheses around the numbers in the text or at
        the bottom around the footnote information. For the numbers
        in the text you can do one of three things: place an
        asterisk next to the number, keep the number in normal (size
        12) font, or keep the number in superscript font. The
        scanner should be doing his or her best to make sure that
        the number stays as it was in the text. Our vendors do not
        add in asterisks but we allow volunteers to do so for
        clarification purposes.

        We ask that the information in the footnote be placed in
        brackets if the number is either superscript or
        regular-sized font in the text (to clarify that it is not
        part of the text). If the proofreader adds in an asterisk
        next to the number, he or she should add in three asterisks
        after the text and before the footnote information. In this
        case, the footnote information does not need to be included
        in brackets.

        Proofreaders have been adding in asterisks since before I
        started, which is why they are allowed to continue. Since we
        are all working very hard to make sure that volunteers,
        outsourcers, and in-house staff are all doing things
        consistently, I’ve been recommending the method of leaving
        the number in the text (either in regular font size or
        superscripted) and then placing the footnote in brackets, as
        that is what both other in-house staff and outsourcers are
        instructed to do. However, we do still allow the asterisk
        version at this time.

        I realize that having two options is not ideal, but I really
        am doing my very best to accommodate everyone while also
        keeping things consistent in order to provide the best
        quality books to our members.

        Best,

        Madeleine Linares

        Volunteer Coordinator

        Bookshare, a Benetech Initiative

        650-644-3459 <tel:650-644-3459>

        madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

        *From:*bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of
        *rdols@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:rdols@xxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 11:28 AM
        *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: End Notes

        The footnote/endnote instructions confused me too. The
        written instructions say "square brackets," but the example
        in the instructions uses parentheses. So I have been using
        parentheses for both the in-text superscript number and the
        footnote number, like:

        A recent study found some interesting results (1).

        (1) Journal of the American Medical Society.

        Is that wrong? Should I be using the asterisk instead? The
        instructions didn't mention asterisks, but what do the rest
        of you do for footnotes?

        Rachel

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

        *From: *"Deborah Murray" <blinkeeblink@xxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:blinkeeblink@xxxxxxxxx>>
        *To: *bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent: *Monday, October 28, 2013 12:44:39 PM
        *Subject: *[bksvol-discuss] Re: End Notes

        Hi Jean,

        Please don't put parentheses or brackets around footnote or
        endnote numbers. The method we have been using, which seems
        to work for everyone, is to put an asterisk (*) in front of
        the number, and make sure there is a space between it and
        the word to which it refers. Example:"My pet is a dog. *1

        I don't understand why we keep being told to enclose
        footnotes at the bottom of a page in square brackets,
        supposedly to avoid confusion. To me, this just creates
        confusion. Square brackets mean something, such as text
        which has been changed or added to by an author. They most
        definitely DO NOT mean footnotes!!

        And when your footnote also contains square brackets... more
        confusion.

        The way I format a page is to use three asterisks (* * *) at
        the end of the main text of the page. Then I list the
        footnotes at the bottom of the page.

        You don't have to do anything special to the notes, whether
        at  the end of the page, chapter or book except to make sure
        the number is followed by a period.

        If the notes are marked only by an asterisk, you need to
        make sure the asterisk is spaced away from the text.

        Hope that wasn't too confusing...

        Deborah

        *From:*bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of
        *Jean McDonald
        *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 1:13 PM
        *To:* bksvol-discuss
        *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] End Notes

        Hi, everyone:

        I've checked the proofreading guide and can't find anything
        relating to end notes.  Is there anything special that needs
        to be done when proofing a book with end notes?  Should the
        note appearing in the text be put into parentheses ( ) as we
        do with footnotes?  What about the list of end notes themselves?

        Any guidance would be appreciated.

        Best,

        Jean McDonald





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