#I don't know, but I don't think so. It would not change the text of the book. It would only rearrange it to make it more accessible. We already do some rearranging anyway, like moving insert pictures along with their captions to the back of the book or placing the caption of an illustration on the same page in a place that will cause the least disruption to the flow of the text.
On 10/29/2013 10:46 PM, john.falter wrote:
Hi Roger: Wouldn't that violate the concept of not changing the book? ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Roger Loran Bailey <mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:28 PM *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: More questions on end notes (was Re: Re: End Notes) # Let me offer this comment with little hope that it will be acted on because it runs counter to all practice until now and, besides, as a volunteer I can imagine that it would be a lot of trouble for either the submitter or proofreader. As a formerly sighted reader I know that footnotes at the bottom of the page are no problem because the eyes can flick down to the bottom for reading the footnote and then flick back to the right place in the text with an interruption hardly being noticed. Whenever the footnote was invented I expect that was the rationale behind putting them there in the first place. In more recent decades end notes have become more popular though. I think I can see why. It would be a lot easier on the typesetter. I never liked them though. Upon coming across the first indication of an endnote it required holding one's place and searching through the book for the end notes. Then if one was going to read more than one endnote in context one would have to hold one's finger at the end notes page and keep flipping back and forth as one would come across them. It can be hardly said that something like that is a hardly noticeable interruption. For someone who uses a screen reader, though, haveing footnotes at the bottom of the page can be as bad or worse than the end notes are to a sighted reader. You run across a footnote. To read it in context you have to navigate to the bottom of the page and then find your way back to where you left off. If there are multiple footnotes at the bottom of the page this can become terribly tedious. For that reason I have just stopped even trying to read them in context. I just let my screen reader read and then read the footnotes whenever they come along. I would really prefer to have them inserted in the text at the point to which they are referred, perhaps enclosed in some kind of brackets - braces? - so that they could be read in context without an effort to read them in context. On the other hand, I am not so sure that I would want the job of moving all footnotes and end notes to that position. On 10/28/2013 6:15 PM, Cindy Rosenthal wrote:Here's what I copied and saved so I'd have a ever-reader reminder: (I'm also including also the em-dash instructions) In text Put space, asterisk, the number, and another space after the number. That's when the footnote number is in the same font as the text. You-don't have to do that if you make them superscript, and neither superscript nor the alternative is preferable but you have to be consistent. As a sighted person I prefer superscript, and when I'm proofing it makes it easier for me to find them, to be sure I haven't missed any; unfortunately, in the 800-page book I've almost finished I started the other way, and when I asked if it was required I was told what I've said here, so I had to continue; I'll use superscript in my next book. Too often the scans come to with the footnote numbers in the same type as the text but placed not accurately on a line above (that's also an option, if I recall correctly, (I hasten to add here that in Larry's scans they are always perfectly placed; and he even seemsto be going to the extra trouble to do the space asterisk ... instead of leaving that for the prooferHTH Cinndy On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Judy s. <cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: Hi Madeleine, I think I need a little more clarification. smile. When the footnote number remains in the text as normal size or in superscript, do you want a space in front of it, to separate it from the text that it's by, or not? So, for example, would it be: This sentence has a footnote number.1 This is the next sentence in the text. or This sentences has a footnote number. 1 This is the next sentence in the text. Also, at the bottom, if the footnote is contained within square brackets, do the outsourcers and in house staff add in the word footnote: (or footnotes) right after the left bracket to indicate that the following text is a footnote, or not? So, for example, is it: [Footnotes: 1. This is footnote number one. 2. This is footnote number two.] or [1. This is footnote number one. 2. This is footnote number two.] Thanks! Judy s. On 10/28/2013 2:34 PM, Madeleine Linares wrote:Hi all, I’m very sorry for the confusion. I’m working to update the instructions as they are inaccurate and out of date. Please do not put parentheses around the numbers in the text or at the bottom around the footnote information. For the numbers in the text you can do one of three things: place an asterisk next to the number, keep the number in normal (size 12) font, or keep the number in superscript font. The scanner should be doing his or her best to make sure that the number stays as it was in the text. Our vendors do not add in asterisks but we allow volunteers to do so for clarification purposes. We ask that the information in the footnote be placed in brackets if the number is either superscript or regular-sized font in the text (to clarify that it is not part of the text). If the proofreader adds in an asterisk next to the number, he or she should add in three asterisks after the text and before the footnote information. In this case, the footnote information does not need to be included in brackets. Proofreaders have been adding in asterisks since before I started, which is why they are allowed to continue. Since we are all working very hard to make sure that volunteers, outsourcers, and in-house staff are all doing things consistently, I’ve been recommending the method of leaving the number in the text (either in regular font size or superscripted) and then placing the footnote in brackets, as that is what both other in-house staff and outsourcers are instructed to do. However, we do still allow the asterisk version at this time. I realize that having two options is not ideal, but I really am doing my very best to accommodate everyone while also keeping things consistent in order to provide the best quality books to our members. Best, Madeleine Linares Volunteer Coordinator Bookshare, a Benetech Initiative 650-644-3459 <tel:650-644-3459> madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx> *From:*bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *rdols@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:rdols@xxxxxxxxxxx> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 11:28 AM *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: End Notes The footnote/endnote instructions confused me too. The written instructions say "square brackets," but the example in the instructions uses parentheses. So I have been using parentheses for both the in-text superscript number and the footnote number, like: A recent study found some interesting results (1). (1) Journal of the American Medical Society. Is that wrong? Should I be using the asterisk instead? The instructions didn't mention asterisks, but what do the rest of you do for footnotes? Rachel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *"Deborah Murray" <blinkeeblink@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:blinkeeblink@xxxxxxxxx>> *To: *bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *Sent: *Monday, October 28, 2013 12:44:39 PM *Subject: *[bksvol-discuss] Re: End Notes Hi Jean, Please don't put parentheses or brackets around footnote or endnote numbers. The method we have been using, which seems to work for everyone, is to put an asterisk (*) in front of the number, and make sure there is a space between it and the word to which it refers. Example:"My pet is a dog. *1 I don't understand why we keep being told to enclose footnotes at the bottom of a page in square brackets, supposedly to avoid confusion. To me, this just creates confusion. Square brackets mean something, such as text which has been changed or added to by an author. They most definitely DO NOT mean footnotes!! And when your footnote also contains square brackets... more confusion. The way I format a page is to use three asterisks (* * *) at the end of the main text of the page. Then I list the footnotes at the bottom of the page. You don't have to do anything special to the notes, whether at the end of the page, chapter or book except to make sure the number is followed by a period. If the notes are marked only by an asterisk, you need to make sure the asterisk is spaced away from the text. Hope that wasn't too confusing... Deborah *From:*bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jean McDonald *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 1:13 PM *To:* bksvol-discuss *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] End Notes Hi, everyone: I've checked the proofreading guide and can't find anything relating to end notes. Is there anything special that needs to be done when proofing a book with end notes? Should the note appearing in the text be put into parentheses ( ) as we do with footnotes? What about the list of end notes themselves? Any guidance would be appreciated. Best, Jean McDonald