[bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?

From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 19:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Dear Lissi,

I think Pratik was referring to the em dashes in the
middle of sentences. The ones you have, used instead
of quotation marks, possibly are different. There was
one book I did that had the same thing, but I can't
remember what it was. I think it was English and
older--maybe an Agatha Christie.

Cindy

--- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dear Pratik,
> 
> How could you! Tell it to the scanning machines. I
> checked my file and all 
> of the m dashes before quoted words have spaces
> after them. I'm not starting 
> over again, but I'll delete the spaces for the rest
> of the book. On the good 
> side, there are no spaces between the last word of a
> quote and the m dash on 
> the few times it's used. I haven't checked any
> midsentence m dashes, but 
> when I encounter them I'll know where the spaces go.
> Out!
> 
> I've read and commented on this list more than
> enough for today. If I stop 
> checking I may actually go forward from page 62!
> hahaha
> 
> Always with love,
> 
> Lissi.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 7:38 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
> it?
> 
> 
> > Cindy,
> >
> > You're right.  There supposed to be no space
> between the word and the em
> > dash character.  Proper grammar dictates that the
> em dash (or long dash)
> > character immediately follow a word or immediately
> precede one.
> >
> > Pratik
> >
> >
> >
> > Pratik Patel
> > Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services
> (CATS)
> > The City University of New York
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Cindy
> > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 6:46 PM
> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
> it?
> >
> > Hmmm. Sorry, but in the print books I've worked
> on,
> > including the one I'm working on now, there are no
> > spaces between the em dash and the words. In some
> of
> > the scans i've valdiated there have been, but it's
> > been hard to tell of those were em dashes or
> hhyphens.
> > As Lissi says, it's hard to see the difference,
> even
> > with sight.
> > I have four solid three-dimensional books sitting
> on
> > my desk, and not one of them has spaces on either
> side
> > of the em dash. smile
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> I just realized that I was wrong about one thing:
>  I
> >> do know what the
> >> Braille translator does with them.  I am
> >> concentrating on finals right now,
> >> and I had forgotten that I did look at one book -
> >> excellently scanned, but
> >> where in the print text you would see a space m
> dash
> >> space such as
> >> conventionally used for putting in an aside in
> the
> >> middle of a sentence, the
> >> brf file just has a hyphen with no spaces between
> >> the words.  Apparently,
> >> noone replaced them and that is what happens.  I
> >> just add in the extra dash
> >> as I read along so it looks the way it should.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:35 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
> >> it?
> >>
> >>
> >> >I don't know what the Braille translator does
> with
> >> them.  As I recall,  it
> >> >either doesn't display them properly, or it only
> >> puts in one dash instead
> >> >of two, which is what you should have in the
> >> Braille file.  I do know that
> >> >in books I scan and read as rtf files, they are
> not
> >> properly displayed on
> >> >my Pac Mate.  I generally convert them to double
> >> dashes with a quick search
> >> >and replace all in Word before sending them up
> to
> >> Bookshare.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not changing that.  I don't see why Braille
> >> readers should have to
> >> > suffer through crummy-looking text because
> someday
> >> some future software
> >> > upgrade just might fix the problem - assuming
> >> there is one.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
> make
> >> it?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I'm curious though, which comes out better in
> >> braille: m dash, or double
> >> >> dash? Does it matter? I seem to specifically
> >> remember several people on
> >> >> this list encouraging the conversion of m
> dashes
> >> to double dashes for the
> >> >> benefit of braille readers.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can anybody comment?
> >> >>
> >> >> Scott
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:39 AM
> >> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
> make
> >> it?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Cindy,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Please stick with the M-dash character when
> you
> >> enter it.  The automated
> >> >>> tools may not support the proper conversion,
> >> but, we have to make sure
> >> >>> that
> >> >>> future versions of those tools do support
> such
> >> conversions.  The em-dash
> >> >>> character is a slightly shorter character
> than
> >> the double dash (--).  I
> >> >>> know
> >> >>> we have been working with the formatting to
> >> satisfy the stripper
> >> >>> requirement; but we should try to take a
> >> conservative approach when
> >> >>> editting
> >> >>> the original text especially when it comes to
> >> formatting.  In some
> >> >>> cases, we
> >> >>> might have to move words around or make
> slight
> >> font changes but we
> >> >>> should
> >> >>> avoid making other changes.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Pratik
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Pratik Patel
> >> >>> Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services
> >> (CATS)
> >> >>> The City University of New York
> >> >>> pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> >> Behalf Of Cindy
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:55 AM
> >> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
> >> make it?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Is Lissi right in what she says about two
> dashes
> >> >>> instead of an em dash being easier to read in
> >> braile?
> >> >>> What about with Daisy? What should I be
> doing,
> >> em dash
> >> >>> or double dash?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Cindy
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Dear Jake,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Your directions worked perfectly! I'm
> >> levitating! We
> >> >>>> all know I'm not the
> >> >>>> fastest barge on the canal when it comes to
> >> >>>> computers, but your instructions
> >> >>>> put those m dashes exactly where I needed
> them.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The M dash will be especially easy to
> remember
> >> >>>> because it's insert 4 as you
> >> >>>> said for jaws, and then tapping e 4 times to
> >> reach m
> >> >>>> dash and enter not even
> >> >>>> having to go to OK!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Also exciting is the fact I saw a slew of
> items
> >> >>>> listed in the insert 4
> >> >>>> dialogue box which may turn out to be
> useful!!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The book I'm working on is an Irish memoir.
> >> Instead
> >> >>>> of using quotes or
> >> >>>> apostrophes, there's a dash or m dash before
> >> all
> >> >>>> quotes and no mark to show
> >> >>>> the end of the quote. It's plain in print
> >> because
> >> >>>> quotes are inserted
> >> >>>> farther than the narrative, but I think
> braille
> >> >>>> readers will quickly catch
> >> >>>> the pattern.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> While blissfully making my corrections with
> the
> >> new
> >> >>>> command, I noticed that
> >> >>>> the scanner read these unique indications of
> >> quotes
> >> >>>> as dash about half of
> >> >>>> the time and M dash the other half with some
> >> minus
> >> >>>> signs thrown in for
> >> >>>> variety. The mixture was random so I made a
> >> command
> >> >>>> decision to use the
> >> >>>> simpler dash to indicate quotes. I'm on page
> 27
> >> now
> >> >>>> and all quotes are
> >> >>>> uniformly indicated with a single dash,
> easier
> >> for
> >> >>>> me and the reader.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> By the way, when this book is approved, I'm
> >> going to
> >> >>>> mention that while
> >> >>>> anyone interested in quirky humor, Irish
> >> culture and
> >> >>>> recalling life from
> >> >>>> 1959 through 1960 something will like this
> >> book, but
> >> >>>> the POV, and the
> >> >>>> father, a kind of hero to the author will
> >> really
> >> >>>> appeal to the gritty guys
> >> >>>> among the members. I'm entranced, but
> regularly
> >> >>>> amused in spite of myself
> >> >>>> and grossed out, too.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Always with love,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Lissi
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thanks for helping me to enjoy another break
> >> >>>> through!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >>>> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:52 PM
> >> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
> >> make
> >> >>>> it?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> > Hi Lissi,
> >> >>>> >    There are two easy ways to insert an
> >> em-dash
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > If you're using Microsoft Word, you can
> press
> >> >>>> CTRL+ALT+the minus sign on
> >> >>>> > the numpad.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > If you're using JAWS, you can press
> INSERT+4
> >> (the
> >> >>>> 4 on the regular
> >> >>>> > keyboard) and you'll get a list of
> symbols.
> >> Press
> >> >>>> the letter e a few times
> >> >>>> > and you'll find em dash, then press enter.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > That's all there is to it.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Jake
> >> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >>>> > From: "Estelnalissi"
> <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:16 PM
> >> >>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] M dash, how to
> make
> >> it?
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >> Dear Volunteer Friends,
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> There was a discussion here about making
> >> that
> >> >>>> long dash called m dash by
> >> >>>> >> Jaws using microsoft word while
> validating
> >> an RTF
> >> >>>> file. How to make it
> >> >>>> >> with other programs might have been
> >> mentioned,
> >> >>>> too.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> What I mostly remember is that it was
> >> suggested
> >> >>>> that just using 2 dashes
> >> >>>> >> comes out better for the braille reader
> in
> >> >>>> Bookshare's BRF file of a
> >> >>>> >> book. So, I decided that when I had a
> >> choice, I'd
> >> >>>> use 2 dashes.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> However, the book I'm validating is
> already
> >> >>>> packed with m dashes, so if I
> >> >>>> >> fix one, I thought it should match them.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> How do I make an m dash? Occasionally
> jaws
> >> calls
> >> >>>> an m dash a minus, and I
> >> >>>> >> want to replace the minus signs with m
> >> dashes. If
> >> >>>> anyone can point me to
> >> >>>> >> the answer or remind me how to do this,
> I'd
> >> >>>> appreciate it and save the
> >> >>>> >> information in my Bookshare Tips file.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> While I wait to hear about this, I'll
> mark
> >> the
> >> >>>> spot and go on. I'm only
> >> >>>> >> on page 12, but this book really
> motivates
> >> me to
> >> >>>> make good progress.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Hope all of your current endeavors are
> going
> >> >>>> swimmingly. - Smile
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Always with love,
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Lissi
> >> >>>> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a
> blank
> >> Email
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
> the
> >> >>>> subject line.  To get a list
> >> >>>> >> of available commands, put the word
> 'help'
> >> by
> >> >>>> itself in the subject line.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> -- 
> >> >>>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> >>>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> >>>> >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:
> >> 268.8.1/354 -
> >> >>>> Release Date: 6/1/2006
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> >> Email
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
> the
> >> >>>> subject line.  To get a list
> >> >>>> > of available commands, put the word 'help'
> by
> >> >>>> itself in the subject line.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> >> Email to
> >> >>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> >> subject
> >> >>>> line.  To get a list of available commands,
> put
> >> the
> >> >>>> word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> __________________________________________________
> >> >>> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> >>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> >> protection around
> >> >>> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email
> >> to
> >> >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> >> subject line.  To get a list
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> available commands, put the word 'help' by
> >> itself in the subject line.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email
> >> to
> >> >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> >> subject line.  To get a list
> >> >>> of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> >> itself in the subject
> >> >>> line.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -- 
> >> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> >>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:
> 268.8.1/355 -
> >> Release Date: 6/2/2006
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email
> >> to
> >> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> >> subject line.  To get a list
> >> >> of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> >> itself in the subject line.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email
> >> to
> >> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> >> subject line.  To get a list
> >> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> >> itself in the subject line.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
> to
> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject
> >> line.  To get a list of available commands, put
> the
> >> word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
> to
> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject line.  To get a list 
> > of
> > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself
> in the subject line.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
> to
> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject line.  To get a list 
> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by
> itself in the subject line.
> >
> > 
> 
>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject
> line.  To get a list of available commands, put the
> word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
 To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line.  To get a list of 
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
Follow-Ups:
- [bksvol-discuss] dashes for quotes in Irish book
  - From: Estelnalissi
References:
- [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?
  - From: Estelnalissi
[bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?

Other related posts:
