[bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.

  • From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:26:43 -0400

I don't see why this kind of thing would be objectionable to anyone. Disclosure is not the same as censorship. The more information the better. 


Evan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Smith" <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx> 
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:09 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
I agree with you here. In this way, you can let people know what potentially offensive content a book may contain, but not practicing censorship. I, personally don't like violence, but strong language and descriptions of sex don't bother me. If something were marked as having violence, I wouldn't have to read it. 

Melissa



Jackie McBride wrote:

Perhaps to put this in a bit of context:
a) I have had books that were *obviously* meant for children marked as
adult lol! but
b) Rather than adult or not, I do wish that bookshare would do what
the NLS does & put stuff like explicit descriptions of sex, violence,
strong language, etc., in the summary. That way, folks who aren't
particularly interested in reading that stuff know what they're
getting *b4* they come across it.

I'll give an example, &, though it's probably a poor 1, may hopefully
serve to illustrate the point.

My daughter was very brutally murdered in 2007. I was deeply affected
by the event, having nightmares for many months in vivid technicolor
of the descriptions I had been given of the scene by the police. I
hadn't dreamed in color for many years, but it certainly let me know I
could do that. I decided as a diversion to proof a book for bookshare.
I downloaded it, & the 1st chapter contained a rather graphic scene of
a native American being tortured. Let's just say I did not fare well
(the understatement of the century) & leave it at that. I'm certain
some of the volunteers on the list at that time remember the incident
as a few gave me some counseling regarding my conflict as a new
volunteer between finishing what I started but feeling unable to
continue, which, was, btw, appreciated. Had I known the book contained
graphic violence, I obviously never would have downloaded it. Perhaps
this is extreme, but I do think that we should have some way of
knowing that books we're thinking about contain these things in case
we don't want to read about them, or, in the case of parents, in case
we don't want our children reading them.

So perhaps there should be checkmarks for things like violence,
language, & sex. Just my $02, as opposed to simply being rated adult.

On 9/9/09, Chela Robles <cdrobles693@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Gwinn, everyone has different tastes, for instance, I don't like the way
Kenny G plays his saxophone, circular breathing, that is how Rafael Mendez, a trumpeter died, did something to his lungs and decreased velocity, I don't 
like Rick Braun, a trumpeter, his style is not my favorite, I like to
broaden my horizon when it comes to books, but again, if I don't feel
comfortable about reading a book say about gays and lesbians, for example, then I'd just delete it no harm will come to me anyway, it just depends on 
your preference, like if you like only vanilla, to me, I have to have
something other than vanilla ice cream because it is just blah to me, get what I trying to say here? I have to agree with Roger, Cindy, and everyone 
else here. Don't take this personally though, guys, can we stop this
discussion, please and go on with our lives, because it is ultimately up to the person whether they choose what to read or not, end of discussion, thank 
you!
Chela Robles jazz trumpeter/enthusiast/almost LMT
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: gwen tweedy
  To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:22 AM
  Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.


  It's not so much uncomfortable as
lots of those books they have loads of it I have one grown daughter, so I'm not as prudish as you might imagine. But when you have just pages and pages of discriptions which really add nothing to a story I guess I just don't need to read about it and my nieces and nephes if they had to be here, don't need to read about it either and if it's marked as no adult content, 
that would say to me that anyone could read it.
  I don't care what people read but there is plenty of books out there I
have seen even in here, that doesn't have that stuff and it's perfectly
enjoyable.
A person does it in the privacy of their bedrooms I don't care if it sales or not for me it doesn't sell. And I as a reader have just as much right to 
read the tamer stuff and can have  the right to have that choice without
worrying if I'm gonna stumble on what I determine as sorry but for me
personally it is smut.
For you it's fine reading yea that is good but I should be able to go into 
one of these departments and be free from that if I so choose.
I pick out what I want at the grocery store so I should be able to do the 
same here. Supposing my niece had been looking over my shoulder I didn't
know about this particular book and opened it
  sorry but thanks, but no thanks my niece and I shouldn't accidentally
stumble upon this in trying to find a book.
  I know I'm wierd. I except that.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
    To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:43 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you. 


    Indeed, it is up to the person with tender sensibilities to find
something they can enjoy rather than ask someone else to cater to those
sensibilities, but frankly, I don't see how they can do it. I have noticed that the most popular topic of small talk wherever you go, beating out even 
the weather, is sex. If I were going to avoid the topic of sex I think I
would just have to quit reading and having conversations. So, not only is it an almost impossible topic to avoid, it is also a topic that I can't see how it could make anyone uncomfortable. That is like being offended by someone 
saying that they went to the grocery store yesterday. I would think that
maintaining such an attitude toward sex would be a lot more stressful than 
actually being exposed to it if one does have that attitude.


"The
end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the 
end.
    " Leon Trotsky
The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press: 
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
    Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
                 _

    table with 2 columns and 6 rows
    Subj:
    [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
    Date:
    9/9/2009 12:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time
    From:
    soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
    Reply-to:
    bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    To:
    bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Sent from the Internet
    (Details)
    table end

    Once more I am in agreement with Roger.  If your sensibilities are
that tender it should be up to you to take whatever steps you require 
    to find something you can enjoy.  Asking others to cater to you at
    that level is simply too much.

    On 9/8/09, Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Some time ago I recall Pavi saying that the dictionary that algorithm 
uses
> was reviewed and that it was laughable when they saw some of the words 
that
    > were in it. Supposedly that was corrected, but I very much suspect
that I
    > would still consider it laughable. Honestly, I was once telling
someone
> something another person said. I mentioned that the person had said 
that
    > another
> person was pissed off. I do not ordinarily use that phrase myself, but 
since
> I was relating what someone else said I did that time. I was angrily 
accused
    > of being obscene. It never even occurred to me in my wildest
speculations
> that anyone would consider that to be obscene and if I had found it in 
that
    > dictionary of prohibited words and phrases I would have found that
    > laughable.
> Nevertheless, someone did consider it obscene. That is why I tend to 
think
    > that the person who is offended by so-called "adult" words has the
problem,
    > not the one who utters them.
    >
    >
    > "The end may justify the means as long as there is something that
justifies
    > the end.
    > " Leon Trotsky
    >
> The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder 
Press:
    > http://www.pathfinderpress.com
    > Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
    >                  _
    >
    > table with 2 columns and 6 rows
    > Subj:
    > [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
    > Date:
    > 9/8/2009 10:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    > From:
    > cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    > Reply-to:
    > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    > To:
    > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    > Sent from the Internet
    > (Details)
    > table end
    >
    > Evan, I've wondered about how that algorithm works too, because
    > of the children's books I've proofed that were erroneously marked
    > as adult by the algorithm.  I'd bet part of it is based on
    > Bookshare useing a dictionary of words that can be considered
    > adult (with some contexting built in, I'd guess).  The final
    > designation of adult comes about by using a weighting of the
    > number of times words/terms/phrases appear factored against the
    > total number of words in a book.  So if you have a children's
    > book with very few words, and one of the 'suspect' words appears,
    > although it could be in a totally innocent context, bam! The
    > children's book is going to get rated as adult.  I had that
    > happen a few months ago with a board book I was proofreading!
    >
    > Just guessing here, of course. smile.
    >
    > Judy s.
    >
    > EVAN REESE wrote:
    >> What determines adult content is ultimately the proofreader.
Bookshare's
    >> computer can mark a book either Adult or not, using some secret
>> algorithm that staff refuses to divulge to us, but the proofreader 
can
>> change the Bookshare computer's choice if he/she feels that a change 
is
>> justified. It used to be either the submitter and/or the proofreader, >> but Bookshare took that choice away from submitters and seems to have 
no
    >> inclination to give it back.
    >
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    --
    Soronel Haetir
    soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
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