[bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
- From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:24 -0800
In a layman's sense obscenity is material that tends to be sexually
suggestive in nature. Most uses of expletives in fiction don't
measure up to that standard, let alone the legal standard.
I am thinking of things like Tom Clancey where such language is used,
but not in an obscene sense.
On 9/10/09, Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I thought, not in the legal sense re books but in language, that certian
> 4-letter words are generally considered to be obscenity, and that is to what
> I refer when I put my warning in the synopsis
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
> Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and
> books-being-scanned list available at sites below
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
>
>
>
> Books Being Scanned List:
> https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
>
> --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:20 PM
>
> Certainly the legal definition of obscenity in the US is incredibly
> subjective.
>
> A statement that a work has explicit sexual material etc however is
> much more factual in nature than the obscenity call. If a work meets
> the legal definition bookshare should not carry it because it is in
> fact illegal to both distribute and receive obscene material, though
> legal to possess. That last may seem somewhat strange but is
> nonetheless true.
>
> On 9/10/09, Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> It is hard for me to see how it could be a statement of fact rather than
>> opinion. I know that the very most explicit descriptions of sex do not
>> strike
>> me as obscene. Yet, I am quite aware that there are others who do not
>> agree
>> with that even if I have a hard time understanding their perspective. That
>> makes it a matter of opinion as I understand the word opinion.
>>
>>
>> "The end may justify the means as long as there is something that
>> justifies
>> the end.
>> " Leon Trotsky
>>
>> The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder
>> Press:
>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>> Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>> _
>>
>> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>> Subj:
>> [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>> Date:
>> 9/10/2009 10:07:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>> From:
>> popularplace@xxxxxxxxx
>> Reply-to:
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To:
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent from the Internet
>> (Details)
>> table end
>>
>> Possibly; but I consider the reviews to be the place for my opinions of
>> the
>> book, e.g., whether it's well-written, a little strange but worth
>> reading..
>> A
>> statement that a book has explicit descriptions of sex, or violence , or
>> torture, or obscenities or profanity is a satement of fact, not my
>> opinion,
>> and
>> for those who don't want to read books that contain such I think the
>> warning should be in the synopsis, not my review.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and
>> books-being-scanned list available at sites below
>>
>> Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
>>
>> Books Being Scanned List:
>> https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
>>
>> --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> block quote
>>
>> From: Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you..
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:44 AM
>>
>> When it comes to these warnings of sex, violence and strong language I
>> wonder if it might be more appropriate to write a review and include them
>> there.
>> That is where opinions belong and these warnings really are a matter of
>> opinion, especially the ones about strong language. As I said, I have read
>> NLS
>> books that were labeled as containing explicit descriptions of sex and
>> strong language. When finished I found myself asking two questions. There
>> were
>> descriptions
>> of sex, but how was it explicit? The second one was where was the strong
>> language at all?
>>
>> "The end
>> may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the
>> end.
>> " Leon Trotsky
>>
>> The Militant:
>> http://www.themilitant.com
>> Pathfinder Press:
>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>> Granma International:
>> http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>> _
>>
>> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>> Subj:
>> [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>> Date:
>> 9/9/2009 6:46:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>>
>> From:
>> popularplace@xxxxxxxxx
>> Reply-to:
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To:
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent from the Internet
>> (Details)
>> table end
>>
>> I do exactly what you suggest. Unfortunately since there isn't, or wasn't
>> when there was a 250 limit in the short synopsis I put such a warning in
>> the
>> long synopsis.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and
>> books-being-scanned list available at sites below
>>
>> Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
>>
>> Books Being Scanned List:
>> https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
>>
>> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Judy s. <cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> block quote
>>
>> From: Judy s. <cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 10:49 AM
>>
>> Jackie, I so get what you are saying (and I'm so sorry about your
>> daughter!). It isn't a case of censorship. It's a case of wanting to be
>> able
>> to
>> appropriately
>> choose what to read. I've lost one third of my entire family in the last
>> few years in not one, but two separate car accidents, one that was so
>> horrific
>> it was reported in photos and TV news across the Midwest. I don't want to
>> just open a book that involves anything graphic regarding car accidents,
>> because
>> of that. It's still too raw, and I don't want to be 'surprised' by it when
>> I am reading or proofreading something.
>>
>> The NLS system does seem better than the bookshare way of marking things
>> as
>> adult or not adult, because it at least helps raise a flag to help people
>> decide
>> what to read before they come across things they don't want to read.
>>
>> Judy s.
>>
>> Jackie McBride wrote:
>>> Perhaps to put this in a bit of context:
>>> a) I have had books that were *obviously* meant for children marked as
>>> adult lol! but
>>> b) Rather than adult or not, I do wish that bookshare would do what
>>> the NLS does & put stuff like explicit descriptions of sex, violence,
>>> strong language, etc., in the summary. That way, folks who aren't
>>> particularly interested in reading that stuff know what they're
>>> getting *b4* they come across it.
>>>
>>> I'll give an example, &, though it's probably a poor 1, may hopefully
>>> serve to illustrate the point.
>>>
>>> My daughter was very brutally murdered in 2007. I was deeply affected
>>> by the event, having nightmares for many months in vivid technicolor
>>> of the descriptions I had been given of the scene by the police. I
>>> hadn't dreamed in color for many years, but it certainly let me know I
>>> could do that. I decided as a diversion to proof a book for bookshare.
>>> I downloaded it, & the 1st chapter contained a rather graphic scene of
>>> a native American being tortured. Let's just say I did not fare well
>>> (the understatement of the century) & leave it at that. I'm certain
>>> some of the volunteers on the list at that time remember the incident
>>> as a few gave me some counseling regarding my conflict as a new
>>> volunteer between finishing what I started but feeling unable to
>>> continue, which, was, btw, appreciated. Had I known the book contained
>>> graphic violence, I obviously never would have downloaded it. Perhaps
>>> this is extreme, but I do think that we should have some way of
>>> knowing that books we're thinking about contain these things in case
>>> we don't want to read about them, or, in the case of parents, in case
>>> we don't want our children reading them.
>>>
>>> So perhaps there should be checkmarks for things like violence,
>>> language, & sex. Just my $02, as opposed to simply being rated adult.
>>>
>>> On 9/9/09, Chela Robles <
>> cdrobles693@xxxxxxxxx
>>> wrote:
>>>> Gwinn, everyone has different tastes, for instance, I don't like the way
>>>> Kenny G plays his saxophone, circular breathing, that is how Rafael
>> Mendez,
>>>> a trumpeter died, did something to his lungs and decreased velocity, I
>> don't
>>>> like Rick Braun, a trumpeter, his style is not my favorite, I like to
>>>> broaden my horizon when it comes to books, but again, if I don't feel
>>>> comfortable about reading a book say about gays and lesbians, for
>> example,
>>>> then I'd just delete it no harm will come to me anyway, it just depends
>> on
>>>> your preference, like if you like only vanilla, to me, I have to have
>>>> something other than vanilla ice cream because it is just blah to me,
>> get
>>>> what I trying to say here? I have to agree with Roger, Cindy, and
>> everyone
>>>> else here. Don't take this personally though, guys, can we stop this
>>>> discussion, please and go on with our lives, because it is ultimately up
>> to
>>>> the person whether they choose what to read or not, end of discussion,
>> thank
>>>> you!
>>>> Chela Robles jazz trumpeter/enthusiast/almost LMT
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: gwen tweedy
>>>> To:
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:22 AM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not so much uncomfortable as
>>>> lots of those books they have loads of it I have one grown daughter, so
>>>> I'm not as prudish as you might imagine. But when you have just pages
>> and
>>>> pages of discriptions which really add nothing to a story I guess I just
>>>> don't need to read about it and my nieces and nephes if they had to be
>> here,
>>>> don't need to read about it either and if it's marked as no adult
>> content,
>>>> that would say to me that anyone could read it.
>>>> I don't care what people read but there is plenty of books out there I
>>>> have seen even in here, that doesn't have that stuff and it's perfectly
>>>> enjoyable.
>>>> A person does it in the privacy of their bedrooms I don't care if it
>> sales
>>>> or not for me it doesn't sell. And I as a reader have just as much right
>> to
>>>> read the tamer stuff and can have the right to have that choice without
>>>> worrying if I'm gonna stumble on what I determine as sorry but for me
>>>> personally it is smut.
>>>> For you it's fine reading yea that is good but I should be able to go
>> into
>>>> one of these departments and be free from that if I so choose.
>>>> I pick out what I want at the grocery store so I should be able to do
>> the
>>>> same here. Supposing my niece had been looking over my shoulder I didn't
>>>> know about this particular book and opened it
>>>> sorry but thanks, but no thanks my niece and I shouldn't accidentally
>>>> stumble upon this in trying to find a book.
>>>> I know I'm wierd. I except that.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From:
>> Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
>>>> To:
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:43 PM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, it is up to the person with tender sensibilities to find
>>>> something they can enjoy rather than ask someone else to cater to those
>>>> sensibilities, but frankly, I don't see how they can do it. I have
>> noticed
>>>> that the most popular topic of small talk wherever you go, beating out
>> even
>>>> the weather, is sex. If I were going to avoid the topic of sex I think I
>>>> would just have to quit reading and having conversations. So, not only
>> is it
>>>> an almost impossible topic to avoid, it is also a topic that I can't see
>> how
>>>> it could make anyone uncomfortable. That is like being offended by
>> someone
>>>> saying that they went to the grocery store yesterday. I would think that
>>>> maintaining such an attitude toward sex would be a lot more stressful
>> than
>>>> actually being exposed to it if one does have that attitude.
>>>>
>>>> "The
>>>> end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies
>> the
>>>> end.
>>>> " Leon Trotsky
>>>>
>>>> The Militant:
>> http://www.themilitant.com
>> Pathfinder Press:
>>>>
>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>>> Granma International:
>> http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>>> _
>>>>
>>>> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>>>> Subj:
>>>> [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>>> Date:
>>>> 9/9/2009 12:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>>>> From:
>>>>
>> soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> Reply-to:
>>>>
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To:
>>>>
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Sent from the Internet
>>>> (Details)
>>>> table end
>>>>
>>>> Once more I am in agreement with Roger. If your sensibilities are
>>>> that tender it should be up to you to take whatever steps you require
>>>> to find something you can enjoy. Asking others to cater to you at
>>>> that level is simply too much.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/8/09,
>> Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
>> <Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
>>> wrote:
>>>> > Some time ago I recall Pavi saying that the dictionary that algorithm
>>>> uses
>>>> > was reviewed and that it was laughable when they saw some of the words
>>>> that
>>>> > were in it. Supposedly that was corrected, but I very much suspect
>>>> that I
>>>> > would still consider it laughable. Honestly, I was once telling
>>>> someone
>>>> > something another person said. I mentioned that the person had said
>>>> that
>>>> > another
>>>> > person was pissed off. I do not ordinarily use that phrase myself, but
>>>> since
>>>> > I was relating what someone else said I did that time. I was angrily
>>>> accused
>>>> > of being obscene. It never even occurred to me in my wildest
>>>> speculations
>>>> > that anyone would consider that to be obscene and if I had found it in
>>>> that
>>>> > dictionary of prohibited words and phrases I would have found that
>>>> > laughable.
>>>> > Nevertheless, someone did consider it obscene. That is why I tend to
>>>> think
>>>> > that the person who is offended by so-called "adult" words has the
>>>> problem,
>>>> > not the one who utters them.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > "The end may justify the means as long as there is something that
>>>> justifies
>>>> > the end.
>>>> > " Leon Trotsky
>>>> >
>>>> > The Militant:
>> http://www.themilitant.com
>> Pathfinder
>>>> Press:
>>>> >
>> http://www..pathfinderpress.com
>>>> > Granma International:
>> http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>>> > _
>>>> >
>>>> > table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>>>> > Subj:
>>>> > [bksvol-discuss] Re: I have a question please and thank you.
>>>> > Date:
>>>> > 9/8/2009 10:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>>>> > From:
>>>> >
>> cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> > Reply-to:
>>>> >
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> > To:
>>>> >
>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> > Sent from the Internet
>>>> > (Details)
>>>> > table end
>>>> >
>>>> > Evan, I've wondered about how that algorithm works too, because
>>>> > of the children's books I've proofed that were erroneously marked
>>>> > as adult by the algorithm. I'd bet part of it is based on
>>>> > Bookshare useing a dictionary of words that can be considered
>>>> > adult (with some contexting built in, I'd guess). The final
>>>> > designation of adult comes about by using a weighting of the
>>>> > number of times words/terms/phrases appear factored against the
>>>> > total number of words in a book.. So if you have a children's
>>>> > book with very few words, and one of the 'suspect' words appears,
>>>> > although it could be in a totally innocent context, bam! The
>>>> > children's book is going to get rated as adult. I had that
>>>> > happen a few months ago with a board book I was proofreading!
>>>> >
>>>> > Just guessing here, of course. smile.
>>>> >
>>>> > Judy s.
>>>> >
>>>> > EVAN REESE wrote:
>>>> >> What determines adult content is ultimately the proofreader.
>>>> Bookshare's
>>>> >> computer can mark a book either Adult or not, using some secret
>>>> >> algorithm that staff refuses to divulge to us, but the proofreader
>>>> can
>>>> >> change the Bookshare computer's choice if he/she feels that a change
>>>> is
>>>> >> justified. It used to be either the submitter and/or the proofreader,
>>>> >> but Bookshare took that choice away from submitters and seems to have
>>>> no
>>>> >> inclination to give it back.
>>>> >
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>>>> >
>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a
>>>> list of
>>>> > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject
>>>> > line..
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Soronel Haetir
>>>>
>> soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>>>>
>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list
>>>> of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject
>> line.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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>> block quote end
>>
>> block quote end
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Soronel Haetir
> soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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>
>
>
>
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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