[bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:53:54 -0800 (PST)
Interesting letter, Sarah, and informative.
I just realized how to solve the problem of
disappearing tabs and the spacing of indented
paragraphs that annoy some people. (It seems that the
more I validate and experiment with Word the more I
discover things I wish I'd known earlier). It is a
little time-consuming, and you and others probably
already know about it.
I blacken the page and in the Format file I choose
Paragraph and in Indent and Spacing I choose First
line and make it .3 I just did this with a
children's book that had fewer than 50 pages. In a
longer book, to do it page by page would be quite
time-consuming, but I probably will, unless it words
if I do the entire book file at once. If that works,
all I'll have to do is change the first line on those
pages where it isn't indented.
Of course, if a line space is skipped between
paragraphs, that's un-necessary, but when I asked for
people's opinions, two said they preferred indented
paragraphs, one said a space between paragraphs, and
others either didn't express an opinion or didn't
care. Two vs one, with lots of abstentions, is a
majority, though I won't change anything that's
already formatted. smile
Cindy
--- Sarah Van Oosterwijck
<curiousentity@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yes, you are correct that the results of automated
> conversion to BRF do not
> result in a braille file as perfect as they would be
> if done by a person,
> but if we require perfection before we will read
> books we aren't the right
> subscribers for bookshare.
> I am very close to a perfectionist myself, but I
> know perfection is
> unattainable, and incompatible with large numbers of
> books beeing made
> available. I need large numbers of books in order
> to feed my reading
> addiction, so very high quality will do.
>
> It's not only the BRF files that suffer from
> automatic conversion, though
> they suffer slightly more than the DAISY versions of
> each book. check out
> the following web site for tips.
>
> http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tips/
>
> A tip I contributed on problem characters discusses
> some of the problems
> that are currently being caused by the system.
> Unfortunately that doesn't
> even cover a number of other serious flaws.
> Formatting in braille isn't
> messed up--it simply doesn't exist! Bold doesn't
> seem to appear in DAISY
> files, but italics have been found. You should also
> know that books
> submitted and automatically processed will loose
> chapter titles if you do
> not place a page number or copy of the usual running
> header found in the
> book at the top of those pages starting with the
> chapter title. The system
> is trying to clear out those running headers so they
> don't bother readers,
> but the script wasn't programmed to be smart enough
> to tell the difference
> between repeating text that should be removed and
> repeating text that is
> valuable to the reader.
>
> All tables that appear in the book will be garbled
> beyond readability both
> in BRF and DAISY files. The system doesn't seem to
> be aware of the concept
> of a table, and if you try to get around that by
> redoing them it probably
> won't work either. That is because tabs are removed
> from the file without
> replacing them with anything.
>
> Bookshare has been told about these issues and has
> promised to work on
> solutions. Of course that takes time and there is
> also probably some
> disagreement about how to effect those changes.
>
> Basically, if you have a problem with the bookshare
> system tell bookshare
> not this list because this list is pretty much aware
> of the problems. I'm
> not sure that the bookshare staff is as familiar
> with access technology in
> general, and braille in particular, so tips you can
> provide them might be
> helpful. Complaints without any supporting
> information or possible
> solutions are probably a good deal less useful.
>
> Sarah Van Oosterwijck
> Assistive Technology Trainer
> http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Westmoreland, J. R." <jr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 3:05 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed
>
>
> > Okay, that explains why I find problems with the
> .brf files. The files
> > can't just be imported into DBT, or whatever, and
> be expected to work
> > right.
> > From real world experience I have found several
> problems.
> > Here is a short list for the curious:
> > 1) Often cases where the italic/bold codes land in
> the wrong place on
> > conversion and generate incorrect output.
> > 2) Elipsis issues. These can come from many
> causes.
> > 3) Things that cause spaces to appear in the
> braille, thereby tripping
> > up the translator.
> > 4) Format problems that get introduced by the
> conversion of .doc files
> > to .dxp, and I assume other input processes. E.g.,
> poem, etc.
> > 5) Blank lines that either shouldn't, or sometimes
> should, be there.
> > ETC.
> >
> > All of the above can't be handled, at least not
> that I know of, yet in
> > an automated fashion.
> >
> > Maybe I'm just being a bit hyper but I feel like
> if one is going to do
> > it it should be done to the best of ones ability.
> > Braille should be the best we can possibly make it
> and not an
> > afterthought.
> >
> > Sorry for the soapbox discussion.
> > I guess I should jump down and go back to my cage.
> <smile>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > J. R.
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________
> > J. R. Westmoreland - Network Planner
> > PacifiCorp
> > Phone: (801) 220-4784
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Cindy
> > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 1:28 PM
> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed
> >
> > Julie gave an excellent, clear, detailed
> description of the procedure.
> > The only thing I would add is that you should keep
> the book in rtf to
> > upload. You can change it to Word to work on but
> should change back to
> > rtf to upload. Bookshare will then convert to brf
> and daisy.
> >
> > If you've downloaded a brf book to validate, then
> you need to keep it in
> > brf format when you upload. It can't be converted
> to rtf. If you've
> > taken one from the collection to improve the brf
> format, then when you
> > upload it you need to put that in the comments
> section so Gustavo will
> > know to replace just the brf copy that's in the
> collection--and put BSO
> > in front of the title so he's know it's a
> replacement.
> >
> > As Julie says, feel free to ask anything here.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Julie Morales <mercy421@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> OK, assuming the book is in RTF format when it's
> received...did you
> >> register to become a volunteer? Did you get the
> instructions for
> >> validating books?
> >> That would be a start and give you some things to
> look for. In those
> >> instructions, the bare minimum is listed, but
> many of us do more than
> >> that.
> >> If you don't have those instructions, I don't
> have them, but maybe
> >> someone has a copy they can send you. If you're
> taking a book from the
> >
> >> Step One page, where you download books that need
> to be validated, you
> >
> >> check for completion to make sure the book is
> complete with no missing
> >
> >> pages. You check copyright info and make sure the
> book is not an
> >> e-book. There are some university materials that
> are submitted that
> >> throw people off because they look like e-books,
> but those are not to
> >> be rejected.
> >> <smile> You do a spell
> >> check and fix any errors you find, or, if you're
> so inclined, you can
> >> read the book completely through and correct
> errors as you come to
> >> them. Page breaks are a must. Bookshare will no
> longer accept books
> >> without page breaks, but usually, that's not
> something you have to
> >> worry about with an RTF file. I'm not sure if
> I've answered your
> >> question, but if not, definitely feel free to ask
> more. That's what
> >> this list is for and I'm sure someone will be
> glad to help. Take care.
> >> Julie Morales
> >> Children are fragile. Handle with prayer.
> --Unknown
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
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