Interesting letter, Sarah, and informative. I just realized how to solve the problem of disappearing tabs and the spacing of indented paragraphs that annoy some people. (It seems that the more I validate and experiment with Word the more I discover things I wish I'd known earlier). It is a little time-consuming, and you and others probably already know about it. I blacken the page and in the Format file I choose Paragraph and in Indent and Spacing I choose First line and make it .3 I just did this with a children's book that had fewer than 50 pages. In a longer book, to do it page by page would be quite time-consuming, but I probably will, unless it words if I do the entire book file at once. If that works, all I'll have to do is change the first line on those pages where it isn't indented. Of course, if a line space is skipped between paragraphs, that's un-necessary, but when I asked for people's opinions, two said they preferred indented paragraphs, one said a space between paragraphs, and others either didn't express an opinion or didn't care. Two vs one, with lots of abstentions, is a majority, though I won't change anything that's already formatted. smile Cindy --- Sarah Van Oosterwijck <curiousentity@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Yes, you are correct that the results of automated > conversion to BRF do not > result in a braille file as perfect as they would be > if done by a person, > but if we require perfection before we will read > books we aren't the right > subscribers for bookshare. > I am very close to a perfectionist myself, but I > know perfection is > unattainable, and incompatible with large numbers of > books beeing made > available. I need large numbers of books in order > to feed my reading > addiction, so very high quality will do. > > It's not only the BRF files that suffer from > automatic conversion, though > they suffer slightly more than the DAISY versions of > each book. check out > the following web site for tips. > > http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tips/ > > A tip I contributed on problem characters discusses > some of the problems > that are currently being caused by the system. > Unfortunately that doesn't > even cover a number of other serious flaws. > Formatting in braille isn't > messed up--it simply doesn't exist! Bold doesn't > seem to appear in DAISY > files, but italics have been found. You should also > know that books > submitted and automatically processed will loose > chapter titles if you do > not place a page number or copy of the usual running > header found in the > book at the top of those pages starting with the > chapter title. The system > is trying to clear out those running headers so they > don't bother readers, > but the script wasn't programmed to be smart enough > to tell the difference > between repeating text that should be removed and > repeating text that is > valuable to the reader. > > All tables that appear in the book will be garbled > beyond readability both > in BRF and DAISY files. The system doesn't seem to > be aware of the concept > of a table, and if you try to get around that by > redoing them it probably > won't work either. That is because tabs are removed > from the file without > replacing them with anything. > > Bookshare has been told about these issues and has > promised to work on > solutions. Of course that takes time and there is > also probably some > disagreement about how to effect those changes. > > Basically, if you have a problem with the bookshare > system tell bookshare > not this list because this list is pretty much aware > of the problems. I'm > not sure that the bookshare staff is as familiar > with access technology in > general, and braille in particular, so tips you can > provide them might be > helpful. Complaints without any supporting > information or possible > solutions are probably a good deal less useful. > > Sarah Van Oosterwijck > Assistive Technology Trainer > http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Westmoreland, J. R." <jr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 3:05 PM > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed > > > > Okay, that explains why I find problems with the > .brf files. The files > > can't just be imported into DBT, or whatever, and > be expected to work > > right. > > From real world experience I have found several > problems. > > Here is a short list for the curious: > > 1) Often cases where the italic/bold codes land in > the wrong place on > > conversion and generate incorrect output. > > 2) Elipsis issues. These can come from many > causes. > > 3) Things that cause spaces to appear in the > braille, thereby tripping > > up the translator. > > 4) Format problems that get introduced by the > conversion of .doc files > > to .dxp, and I assume other input processes. E.g., > poem, etc. > > 5) Blank lines that either shouldn't, or sometimes > should, be there. > > ETC. > > > > All of the above can't be handled, at least not > that I know of, yet in > > an automated fashion. > > > > Maybe I'm just being a bit hyper but I feel like > if one is going to do > > it it should be done to the best of ones ability. > > Braille should be the best we can possibly make it > and not an > > afterthought. > > > > Sorry for the soapbox discussion. > > I guess I should jump down and go back to my cage. > <smile> > > > > Thanks, > > J. R. > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > J. R. Westmoreland - Network Planner > > PacifiCorp > > Phone: (801) 220-4784 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Cindy > > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 1:28 PM > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed > > > > Julie gave an excellent, clear, detailed > description of the procedure. > > The only thing I would add is that you should keep > the book in rtf to > > upload. You can change it to Word to work on but > should change back to > > rtf to upload. Bookshare will then convert to brf > and daisy. > > > > If you've downloaded a brf book to validate, then > you need to keep it in > > brf format when you upload. It can't be converted > to rtf. If you've > > taken one from the collection to improve the brf > format, then when you > > upload it you need to put that in the comments > section so Gustavo will > > know to replace just the brf copy that's in the > collection--and put BSO > > in front of the title so he's know it's a > replacement. > > > > As Julie says, feel free to ask anything here. > > > > Cindy > > > > > > > > --- Julie Morales <mercy421@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > >> OK, assuming the book is in RTF format when it's > received...did you > >> register to become a volunteer? Did you get the > instructions for > >> validating books? > >> That would be a start and give you some things to > look for. In those > >> instructions, the bare minimum is listed, but > many of us do more than > >> that. > >> If you don't have those instructions, I don't > have them, but maybe > >> someone has a copy they can send you. If you're > taking a book from the > > > >> Step One page, where you download books that need > to be validated, you > > > >> check for completion to make sure the book is > complete with no missing > > > >> pages. You check copyright info and make sure the > book is not an > >> e-book. There are some university materials that > are submitted that > >> throw people off because they look like e-books, > but those are not to > >> be rejected. > >> <smile> You do a spell > >> check and fix any errors you find, or, if you're > so inclined, you can > >> read the book completely through and correct > errors as you come to > >> them. Page breaks are a must. Bookshare will no > longer accept books > >> without page breaks, but usually, that's not > something you have to > >> worry about with an RTF file. I'm not sure if > I've answered your > >> question, but if not, definitely feel free to ask > more. That's what > >> this list is for and I'm sure someone will be > glad to help. Take care. > >> Julie Morales > >> Children are fragile. Handle with prayer. > --Unknown > >> > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email > to > >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the > subject line. To get a > >> list of available commands, put the word 'help' > by itself in the > >> subject line. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about. > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > > dsl.yahoo.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email > to > > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the > subject line. 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