Ok correct me if I'm wrong but in Braille when I see say the following fractions, and this is from my own memory so sorry if it sounds very confusing, just try to stay with me on this one ok? Anyway 1/3 would look like in Braille like a th sign first whitch is dots 1,4,5,6 then the number 1 in Nemeth code dot 2 followed by the horizontal fraction line whitch is an st sign dots 3,4 followed by the number 3 whitch is dots 2,5 lastly followed by the number sign or the end fraction indicator whitch is dots 3,4,5,6. Now, I also note there is a difference in the horizontal and diagonal fraction lines too and that is in the diagonal fraction line they add the following dots to the st sign and those dots they add before the st sign are dots 4,5,6 so it would be for example 2/3, dots 1,4,5,6 then dot 2 then dots 4,5,6 followed by dots 3,4 then dots 2,5 then dots 3,4,5,6. There are also mixed fractions as in 3 and a half cups. when I took algebra and other courses in math that of course had these, hmmm, ahem, not really my favorite, actually complex ones aren't but I'm getting ahead of myself, so anyway, here is what I remember a mixed fraction looks like: it would be dots 3,4,5,6 then dots 2,5 then dots 4,5,6 followed by dots 1,4,5,6 then dot 2 then dots 3,4 then dots 2,3 then dots 1,2,3 followed by dots 3,4,5,6. Now comes the complex fractions as I remember them. Here is an example of such. four thirds over two would be in Braille like if memory serves me correctly: dot 6 followed by dots 1,4,5,6 and again 1,4,5,6 followed by dots 2,5,6 followed by dots 3,4 followed by dots 2,5 followed by dots 3,4,5,6 followed by dot 6 followed by dots 3,4 followed by dots 2,3 followed by dot 6 and lastly followed by dots 3,4,5,6. I hope I haven't caused you all a very big headache when doing this for you all as a point of reference as I do remember it, and if I stand corrected, please gently correct me for I've worked hard in formulating it in writing so it did take time especially without a working brailler and Braille display to confirm all of these so try for yourself for fun these examples then let me know before biting my hard work off. I tend to write Braille faster rather than type everything out on a computer by memory to make you understand what I used to see when dealing with such stuff and hopefully the Braille translating tools will correct me too? Concord California blind jazz trumpeter Chela Robles AKA jazz trumpeter Chris Botti-- "To me, music that breaks your heart is the music that stays with you forever. It's one thing to be melancholy and one thing to be sophisticated, but when you get the two of them together in a way people can relate to, then I think you're on to something. You want the sophistication to lie in the purity of the sound, the beauty of the arrangements, and the quality of the performances."-Trumpeter Chris Botti
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------- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Smith" <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:29 AMSubject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers
Okay, I have a crazy thought. I have no idea if it wille work or not. Probably not, as so many things are not as easy as one would think with technology. I wonder if there would be a way for the conversion tools to be set to place a hyphen between the whole number and the fraction just in the .brf files. If someone wanted fractions to display the conventional way in Braille, they could download the .brf file and the Daisy file could be left the traditional print way. I know I'm probably dreaming here, but somebody has to, or nothing new will ever get invented.Melissa Smith On 6/21/2010 12:06 PM, Mayrie ReNae wrote:Hi Everyone,Again, I went to the braille transcription manual. And, in proper literarybraille, fractions are written with a hyphen between the whole number andthe fraction. I did not seek out an accurate resource for how to properly represent mixed numbers in literary print. But I do believe that Valerie iscorrect that a space should separate whole numbers from fractions. For me, there is a problem with this. I do want braille readers to see accurate braille. But this is not the accurate expression for printfractions to be represented. So, in our efforts to make sure that kids seeaccurately rendered books, which do we do? Now, before you all jump on me about this, reminding me that I opted tofollow braille code with em dashes and elipsis, I will respectfully remindyou that the representation of those things in print is optional so what I've chosen to support is not inaccurate in either print or braille. So, I think on this one, I have to say I think this is a personalpreference. The braille translator will represent exactly whichever manner of representing fractions as it is intended to be represented. So, this isjust me, I think I'd recommend that each person follow his or her own beliefs on this one. Because, in this instance, accurate braille representation will result in inaccurate print representation. And the opposite is also true.Now we all know what is accurate in both print and braille, and can choose.I personally am leaning toward using a space rather than a hyphen toseparate fractions from the whole numbers to which they are attached. Thereare more print reading children using bookshare, and I've seen older cookbooks in braille that used the space to separate the whole numbers from thefraction. So, the braille code may have changed at some point.In any case, this is just my personal preference, and I'd appreciate it if no one would jump on me for having one. I would really love it if we could express fractions accurately for everyone. I just don't see that that can be done easily. So, each of us needs to choose what we think is best to do.Okay, shutting up now. Just wanted you all to know that the brailletranscription manual, unfortunately, does tell us to use the hyphen betweenwhole numbers and their attached fractions, and that print disagrees. Have a great day, everyone! Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ann Parsons Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:49 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers Hi all, No, haven't been reading this thread, but the correct way to write a compound fraction, that's what they're called, folks, is to use a dash toindicate that it is one compound fraction. In braille this is what is done. Since braille is direct reflection of what is done in print, I would benture to say that 1-1/2 is correct as opposed to 1 1/2. The space is incorrect! In print, the 1/2 part of the fraction is actually printed vertically. Theone is on top, in super script and is linked vertically to the two by aslash, a diagonal line. In order for the fraction, compound or otherwise tocome out right in braille, you must write the numerator, then a slash and then the denominator. Yeah, yeah, yeah, terminology again, but it am correct. If we don't standardize, then braille readers will be all bolixed up. You cannot put in something you think is just easier for you. You have to put in what is right, what is standard and what the book says. Imay think that writing a phone number is easier when I write 585-922-3434, but that is *not* how it is done in the sighted world and it is not standard and I can't use it in a Bookshare book. I have to, not should but have to write (585) 922-3434, not any other format just because I think it is easierfor me. Ann P. Original message:Hi, Kim!I didn't think we were allowed to alter text by inserting hyphens. I personally feel it reads easier with a space between the whole number and fraction and unless mandated, would NEVER take the time to insert hyphens in mixed fractions. So, be forewarned if it is a pet peeve of yours that you will not like my submission after proofreading Bakewise.ValerieOn Jun 20, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Kim Friedman wrote:Hi, Pam I would write 1/2 or 1/4 or 1-1/8. When I see fractions, the slash goes between the numerator and the denominator without spaces. Hope this helps. Regards, Kim Friedman. P.S.: One of my pet peeves is seeing a mixed fraction (such as 1-1/2 being written 1 1/2. K.------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pamela Hoffard Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 6:13 PM To: book listSubject: [bksvol-discuss] Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readersHey all,I'm coming across a bunch of fractions for recipes in the book that I'm proofing. For Braille readers, is the 1 / 2 format better than the symbol 1 over 2 in one individual space (sorry I can't make this symbol in e-mail). Any preference?Thanks for your thoughts,Pam__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5210 (20100619) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com<http://www.eset.com>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5210 (20100619) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com<http://www.eset.com/>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxput the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
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