[bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel

  • From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:07:42 -0400

Roger, you are overly dedicated to pedantry. And, yes, I do know what the word means.


However, you don't seem to know the difference between denotation and connotation. Denotation is what the dictionary says; connotation is what most people think of when they hear a word. When people hear the word "profanity" they are thinking of a very narrowly defined group of words. Most people understand that when they use the word. Your lecture on the meaning of the word "profane" is therefore entirely beside the point.

Evan

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey" <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel


I just looked up the word profane on Google. As with most words, there were a number of definitions that came up. Most are just different wording of the same thing. The most frequent ones claim that it is virtually the same thing as secular. That is, having nothing to do with religion. In that case, even the most religious of people use profanity in virtually every sentence they utter. If, in order to avoid profanity, one must use religious terms exclusively then communication would be impossible. Another frequent use of the word was that profanity expresses contempt for things that are religious. In that case, I am a profane person and proud of it. The word sacred was also used. That is, profanity is either not sacred or expresses contempt of the sacred. That begs the question of which religion are you talking about. Different religions declare different things sacred and apparently the speech of anyone, again even the most religious, would have to be considered profane by members of another religion. Now, this leaves a lot of room for opinion about what is profane. And as for myself, if profanity is banned or relegated to the restricted or held up as something to be contemptuous of as profanity itself then I vigorously protest that my own opinions on religion be treated in this manner. Actually, though, I have noticed that those who object to profanity seem to not quite know what the word actually means. If it means simply something that has nothing to do with religion then they are using it correctly, but they seem to pick and choose which words that have nothing to do with religion are to be declared profanity. It is usually used for simple exclamations. If someone bangs his or her finger and says ouch then the word ouch is not unlikely to be declared profane. It is not exclusively used for exclamations though. I have heard the word profanity used against people who simply mentioned what they had just done in the bathroom. All in all, it appears that profanity is most frequently used to describe anything that the person using it does not like. Well, everyone has his or her likes and dislikes and I, for one, do not feel obligated to tip-toe around trying to figure out what someone's likes and dislikes might be and giving thought to my every word so as to not offend them. I can assure you that no one ever bothers to avoid offending me and those who are the most worried about profanity tend to be the most offensive to me. That is their right though. They are also not responsible for figuring out what bothers me and tip-toeing around me either. Ultimately, though, it still amounts to profanity being a matter of opinion. Perhaps it is because I do not feel obligated to tip-toe with every word I utter, but I have never learned to predict with certainty what will set off a prude or right-winger.


_     _      _

"As a woman I have no country. As a woman my country is the world"
Virginia Woolf

The Militant:
http://www.themilitant.com
Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International:
 http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:34 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel


Well, to say that a book contains profanity (the word I couldn't think of before of before or explicit sex or violence or torture obscenities is stating facts rather than opinion--though I admit that "strong language might be opinion. smile. Putting these in the synopsis is preferable, I think. I use the review for expressing my opinion as to whether the book is we ell-written or, is perhaps outlandish but worth reading or is dull--that sort of thing
Cindy

Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and books-being-scanned list available at sites below



Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List

Books Being Scanned List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List


--- On Sat, 3/27/10, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by Elie Weisel
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 5:46 PM
It would work for me. Like I said, I
am all for the disemination of information and such labels
would be informational, not an imposition. Admittedly, I
might be a bit perplexed if a book is labeled as containing
strong language and I read it and find myself asking where
is the strong language. That has happened to me on several
occasions with NLS books. That is why I tend to think that
such labels belong in the reviews section. That is where
opinions belong. In fact, if you look up a book entitled
"When Wizards Rule" you will find that I wrote a review that
amounts to -- even if I was not thinking of it that way when
I wrote it -- a label that the book contains explicit
descriptions of sex.


_ _ _

"As a woman I have no country. As a woman my country is the
world"
Virginia Woolf

The Militant:
http://www.themilitant.com
Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International:
 http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
----- Original Message ----- From: "gwen tweedy" <gstweedy@xxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:50 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more books by
Elie Weisel


> I didn't think of that.
> Couldn't they take the adult content off altogether
and just put the little labels on there the tags of what is
in them and not rate them would that work?
> Gwen
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Smith"
<mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:17 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list: more
books by Elie Weisel
>
>
>> The reason many consider it censorship is that,
only those over 18 are able to download the books marked
adult content. There are some books, or so I've heard, that
are marked adult content, but are required reading for high
school students. Most high school students aren't over 18,
and therefore, couldn't download the books. When I was in
high school, I read several books that could be marked as
having adult content.
>>
>> Melissa Smith
>>
>>
>> On 3/27/2010 4:10 PM, gwen tweedy wrote:
>>> But I'm not talking about Censorship, in
fact it wouldn't be censorship at all.
>>> It would just be telling about the
language content or other in the book. It
wouldn't mean a person couldn't read it, nor would it mean
anyone was trying to stop them from reading it.
>>> It would just mean if a person didn't want to
stumble upon it, they wouldn't need to that is all.
>>> To me there is no censorship to it.
>>> Because it's not telling you can nor can't,
nor is it barring any books.
>>> It's simply a designation for those who feel
more comfortable knowing fully what they are down loading.
>>> TV says PG-13 R G and on it goes, does that
mean people don't watch the shows oh and I forgot X-rating
in movies or shows, does that mean folks don't nor can't
watch them.
>>> Certainly not, a body can do what a person
wants and likes, it is simply a label designation.
>>> It doesn't mean a person can, nor a person
can't! It means absolutely nothing, except a designation.
>>> I guess I don't feel that is censorship.
>>> If you were told what to do and not to do, if
the head here said no no we can't have this or that book up,
then you'd have real reason to call it censorship, because
then they would be squelching your rights as you would see
them.
>>> But no one has done that, nor will they.
>>> It is the same access to the same books no
lock and key, just simply letters for those who wish to know
what is in it.
>>> Nothing more, nothing less no censorship
involved.
>>> Gwen
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger
Loran Bailey" <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:29 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish list:
more books by Elie Weisel
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bingo! And I am one of those who does not
check it for anything., As far as I am concerned it is
completely unjustified to prohibit anyone from reading
anything he or she wants because of status. Can you imagine
it if some self appointed member of the morality police
decided that people who are blind should not be allowed to
read certain things because it happens to offend that
morality policeman's sensibilities without regard to how the
blind person might feel about it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _ _
_
>>>>
>>>> "As a woman I have no country. As a woman
my country is the world"
>>>> Virginia Woolf
>>>>
>>>> The Militant:
>>>> http://www.themilitant.com
>>>> Pathfinder Press:
>>>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>>> Granma International:
>>>> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:
"Melissa Smith" <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:02 AM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For wish
list: more books by Elie Weisel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The reason that the designation
doesn't make a lot of sense, is that the proofer can uncheck
or check the adult content designation. Many feel that the
adult content is a form of censorship, and don't check it
for anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Melissa Smith
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/27/2010 1:32 AM, John J. Boyer
wrote:
>>>>>> It is easy for anyone to download
books that are full of sex scenes, and
>>>>>> not even "nice" sex. I've been
disappointed by some books of Robert
>>>>>> Heinlein. Any child can download
these. I'll probably change my setting
>>>>>> to include "adult" books, since
the designation seems not to make much
>>>>>> sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:25:23AM
-0500, Valerie Maples wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone told us that there is
an actual standard because of the grant that rates books
based on word frequencies and situations that cause them to
generate the adult material designation. I do believe the F.
word is one of the ones that is considered serious and is an
automatic designation. A series of moderate occurrences can
also generate the adult designation. It makes sense that
there would be a criterion with so many books being
available to young readers so that it would remove
accidental inappropriate downloads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having said that, apparently
there were a couple of books that could find no reason for
those designations, those they allowed a proofreader to
remove it if there was absolutely no risk to young readers.
I'm not trying to start a controversy here, just state what
I was told how the adult designation came to be utilized. As
a parent, even though Nichole is not completely independent
in downloading, I am grateful that there is some boundary.
It is easy enough for a child to get an exemption with
parental approval.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Valerie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:59 PM,
Jamie Yates, CPhT wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some books get marked as
adult because the proofreader finds the material to be very
sensitive. I only mark books adult if they are sexually
graphic but often Bookshare takes and marks my books adult
for me. I find the Penny Warner books about the small town
newspaper reporter who is deaf always get marked adult
because she is fond of the f word. Her sex scenes are always
very very very bland so it isn't the few and far between sex
scenes, it has to be her colorful language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've scanned many other
books which Bookshare automatically marked adult and as the
scanner I cannot unmark it. Only the proofreader can do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm told that many Elie
Weisel books are now required reading in high schools these
days so probably Bookshare should be made aware of the
situation so they can assess it.
>>>>>>>>
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