[bksvol-discuss] Re: Footnote #s
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:43:24 -0700 (PDT)
No, you don't have to send the message from your
folder--but if you could explain a little more--are
you saying that using superscript numbers for
footnotes causes trouble for Braille readers and it
would be better to leave them in regular-size arabic
numbers with an asterisk in front of them? Or perhaps
in parentheses? That would certainly be easier and
faster for the validator--at least for me, than
changing them to superscript and smaller font. smile
Cindy R
--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> GC, this is my message. I don't know how it became
> Bobbie's message, but I
> can show that I sent this message last week.
> Shelley was explaining the
> Braille rules for identifying footnotes, and my
> response was the message
> just below yours. As I said, I have no idea how
> this happened. But I can
> send you the exact same message from my Sent
> Messages folder if you wish.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:44 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Footnote #s
>
>
> > Bobbie,
> >
> > I'm not quite sure what your message means. I've
> > validating something now with lots of footnotes
> > (fortunately they're numbered anew for each
> > page--definitions, which are at the bottom of the
> > page). Are you saying that I should not make them
> > raised? I raise the numbers and also make them a
> > smaller font so the line isn't disrupted.
> >
> > Cindy R
> >
> > --- Bobbie Hughes <hughebo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> > Thanks, Shelley, that sounds reasonable. The
> only
> >> problem I can see is
> >> > that
> >> > I don't believe we are supposed to put stuff in
> >> the rtf file that would
> >> > conform to that rule - what I was able to
> >> comprehend of it. <smile> If I
> >> > use superscript numbers, then the Bookshare
> >> Braille translator will have
> >> > to
> >> > see to the Braille rules for identifying
> >> footnotes.
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Shelley L. Rhodes"
> >> <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:05 PM
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Footnote #s
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Braille rules say there should be some
> indication
> >> to the footnote, so
> >> >> actually seperating them out, or placing a *
> >> before them, is actually
> >> >> appropriate, see below, taken from Braille
> >> Formats and Layouts.
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. Notes with print reference marks. For the
> >> purposes of this Code
> >> >> section
> >> >> a
> >> >> print reference mark is defined as any
> superior
> >> number, letter, or
> >> >> character
> >> >> printed in running text, a table, list, or
> >> illustration to indicate that
> >> >> there is a note to what is being discussed and
> to
> >> identify which note.
> >> >> NOTE: In line-numbered texts, all notes that
> are
> >> identified by line
> >> >> numbers
> >> >> must be brailled according to
> >> >> Rule 11, Sections 1d(3) and (4).
> >> >>
> >> >> List of 4 items nesting level 1
> >> >> A. Numbered or lettered reference
> marks.Superior
> >> numbers or letters are
> >> >> usually printed after the reference point
> after
> >> the reference point in
> >> >> the
> >> >> text
> >> >> (word1orworda) and preceding the note itself
> >> (1note, 1. note, anote,ora.
> >> >> note).
> >> >>
> >> >> (1) Each numbered reference mark must be
> >> represented in braille by the
> >> >> symbol dots 35,35 followed by the unspaced
> number
> >> indicator and a
> >> >> number.
> >> >>
> >> >> (2) Each lettered reference mark must be
> >> represented in braille by the
> >> >> symbol dots 35, 35 followed by the unspaced
> >> letter indicator and a
> >> >> letter.
> >> >>
> >> >> B. Superior reference marks.Superior reference
> >> marks are usually printed
> >> >> after the point of reference in the text
> >> (word*orword) and preceding the
> >> >> note itself
> >> >> (*noteornote). The customary sequence of print
> >> reference marks is as
> >> >> follows: * asterisk, dagger, double dagger,
> �
> >> section sign, ||
> >> >> parallels,
> >> >> �
> >> >> paragraph
> >> >> sign, � hollow dot.
> >> >>
> >> >> But as even this indicates there is no "real"
> way
> >> they are supposed to
> >> >> be
> >> >> presented.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >> >> and Judson, guiding golden
> >> >> juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >> >> Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >> >> www.guidedogs.com
> >> >>
> >> >> Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >> >> Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >> >> Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >> >> Carolyn Alexander
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 6:46 PM
> >> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Footnote #s
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Actually, footnote numbers are usually raised
> and
> >> >> smaller--and occasionally, if there haven't
> been
> >> too
> >> >> many of them and some have shown up that way,
> >> I've
> >> >> used Character Spacing in Font in the Format
> file
> >> to
> >> >> do that. If there are a lot, though, I've just
> >> left
> >> >> them as they scanned, usually, as Evan says,
> >> right
> >> >> next to the end of the sentence. I haven't
> come
> >> across
> >> >> any in the middle of sentences, at least
> without
> >> >> punctuation. I think in that case that I would
> >> make
> >> >> the number small and raised.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cindy
> >> >>
> >> >> --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Sorry, but that's too bad for ranked
> spelling.
> >> I do
> >> >>> not think it is a good
> >> >>> idea to alter the way the book is printed to
> >> >>> accommodate ranked spelling.
> >> >>> Numbers for footnotes are printed right up
> >> against
> >> >>> the text. You should
> >> >>> just ignore them when they come up in ranked
> >> >>> spelling rather than making the
> >> >>> footnote references a little less clear in
> order
> >> to
> >> >>> keep them from coming up
> >> >>> in ranked spelling.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 1:31 PM
> >> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Footnote #s
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > On the other hand, putting a space between
> >> >>> punctuation and the number or
> >> >>> > the word and the number means the
> number/word
> >> >>> combination no longer shows
> >> >>> > up as an error in k1000 rank spelling.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > E.
> >> >>> > At 04:15 PM 9/25/2006, you wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >>I have not looked it up so this is just 30
> >> years
> >> >>> experience and what I
> >> >>> >>have learned from your questions, guesses,
> and
> >> >>> answers but you cannot put
> >> >>> >>the footnotes at the end of the line or
> >> sentence
> >> >>> unless they refer to the
> >> >>> >>whole line or sentence. You should not
> leave
> >> a
> >> >>> space because it is then
> >> >>> >>unclear what that "lone, lorn" number is
> doing
> >> >>> there. Evan, the one
> >> >>> >>Braille reader I know, says the number does
> >> not
> >> >>> interfere with his screen
> >> >>> >>reader but even Evan is only one person.
> >> Perhaps
> >> >>> the question could be
> >> >>> >>asked at least of all braille-reader users.
> >> Until
> >> >>> then I would leave the
> >> >>> >>number without a space next to the word to
> >> which
> >> >>> it applies. If sighted
> >> >>> >>College freshman composition students can
> >> figure
> >> >>> it out I would lay odds
> >> >>> >>that blind high-school freshman who have
> had
> >> to
> >> >>> compensate for works not
> >> >>> >>consider by their sighted friends can do so
> a
> >> lot
> >> >>> quicker. All my blind
> >> >>> >>friends did.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
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> >> >>> to
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> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
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> >> >
> >> Thanks to everyone who responded. As I
> suspected,
> >> it seems there is no
> >> true standard for presenting footnote numbers so,
> >> for the time being, I
> >> think I'll leave them as is. If the person who
> >> validates this wishes to
> >> change them, it's fine by me.
> >> Abrazos,
> >> Bobbie
> >>
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