[bksvol-discuss] Re: Computer Manuals, WAS: Re: Re: Responding to your messageRE: Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group Gets Decked Out (book 7)

  • From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:07:48 -0900

There are few top-notch programmers who can write a really good
manual.  They understand the product too well so have to guess at what
other people are going to try.  Just the way things are.

On 12/26/09, Debby Franson <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Roger!
>
> Some programmers are crackerjack programmers but poor manual writers.  I'm
> into shareware and freeware, and there is a wide range of manual writing
> from poor and sketchy to very well-written and clear.
>
> Some software in whatever kick I am into at the time has an interface that
> baffles me and then the next piece in the same given category works well
> for me, because it works the way I work.
>
> Just playing with a piece of software by browsing it's menu system and
> trying things is also a good way to learn a new package I have found.
>
> Debby
>
> At 08:19 PM 12/24/2009, Roger Loran Bailey wrote
>>Well, we all have our advantages and disadvantages over each other. I do,
>>indeed, have some advantages over you, but at the same time I think you
>>have advantages over me and, at least from my perspective, It looks like
>>you are in a better position to start scanning than I was when I started.
>>As for your problem with comprehending manuals, that is exactly what I was
>>talking about when I said that I read them and did not understand them.
>>The secret is to take them a little at a time. Read as little as a
>>sentence. Ask yourself what that sentence means. If it contains words that
>>you do not know the meaning of then look them up or ask someone here on
>>the list. One sentence should not be that difficult to understand and it
>>should not be very daunting. Once you do understand it then that
>>understanding will help you with the understanding of the next one. Soon
>>you can take two, three, even more sentences at a time.  I do know what
>>you mean about reading manuals though. Sometimes there is something I need
>>to review in a manual for something that I have gotten into using
>>regularly. I go to the manual and try to find the part I need and I find
>>myself reading through the whole thing looking for the part I need and not
>>understanding anything. Still, though, the more I learn the easier it gets
>>to learn the next thing and the more I learn about a device the quicker I
>>can go to the part of the manual I need. There are even a few things that
>>I can learn now in about fifteen minutes that even a year ago would have
>>taken a week and every day of that week I would felt like I had run a
>>marathon. And I really am referring to exhaustion. The effects of mental
>>exhaustion are not very different from physical exhaustion. It leaves you
>>just wanting to fall into the oblivion of sleep.
>>
>>By the way, I just thought of another example of a manual that is
>>impenetrable. Some time back there was a discussion of a text editor on
>>this list called Ed Sharp. It was recommended as a good program for
>>editing books for Bookshare. I downloaded it. I have yet to understand the
>>slightest thing about how to use it. The help pages, the menues,
>>everything about it is completely incomprehensible to me. All I can say is
>>that it seems to be designed by techno people who assume that all users
>>will also be techno people.
>>"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do
>>because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B.
>>Anthony
>>
>>The Militant:
>>http://www.themilitant.com
>>Pathfinder Press:
>>http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>Granma International:
>>  http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 8:49 PM
>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Responding to your messageRE: Re: unable to scan
>>yada yada Prayer Group Gets Decked Out (book 7)
>>
>>
>>>Hi, Roger, I am one of these people who falls asleep when I have to read a
>>>manual. By proofreading, I'm learning some controls in Microsoft Word 2003
>>>that I didn't know or forgot. In the '90's, I went to an occupational
>>> center
>>>to learn how to use the computer. The problem was that the computer wasn't
>>>accessible and a sighted person had to read the screen over my shoulder.
>>> Not
>>>a thing to make one feel capable or competent. So I can say I was
>>>intimidated and insecure when it came to computers. I didn't have any idea
>>>what a computer should have, even. Do I know what I'd need if I had to buy
>>>one? I sort of know in a general way, but you can't call me by any stretch
>>>of the imagination a techie. I think you have a bit of an advantage over
>>> me
>>>because you remember print and what it's like. I have handled
>>>three-dimensional representations of block print letters but have never
>>> seen
>>>print. I learned to type in fifth grade and I'm typing now on this
>>> computer,
>>>but I don't know what print books are like. I know they're between covers
>>>and the print can be written in different styles, but I don't understand
>>>those styles. I too didn't get on the Internet until last year because I
>>>didn't have a computer then. One thing I'd also like to understand and
>>>that's computer audio (another thing that intimidates me). I think what
>>>helps me is being able to talk to other users who can translate what they
>>>know from computerese into English. One thing I have done is to write down
>>>procedures in language I can understand so it is there in case I need to
>>> do
>>>a particular thing again, e.g., how to defrag a computer disk. I'm glad I
>>>wrote that one down. Also, there are some web sites where downloading
>>> stuff
>>>is easy whereas other web sites are more difficult. One thing I can
>>> promise
>>>you is if I know something you don't know, I will do my best to explain it
>>>to you. I think that two-way conversation is very effective when it comes
>>>down to understanding things because if you ask a question they can
>>> clarify
>>>things for you, at least it helps me. Regards, Kim. P.S.: I hope you have
>>>more friends who can help you out. I applaud your ability to parse out
>>> what
>>>to do, but I think things go a lot faster once you have a support group of
>>>people who are routing for you. K.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
>>> Bailey
>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:17 PM
>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group Gets
>>>Decked Out (book 7)
>>>
>>>Why am I worried about it? Well, I don't suppose I am really worried. It
>>>just kind of bothers me that someone is afraid of tackling something that
>>> I
>>>am almost certain the person will find quite easy once it is tackled.
>>> Really
>>>, it is not that hard. And even if it does turn out to be not something
>>> you
>>>want to continue with you can always stop. I say that with knowledge of my
>>>own experience. I first got a computer back in the 1990s and I was really
>>>lucky to be able to figure out how to even plug it in. I was completely on
>>>my own with no help whatsoever, but I had spent a good bit of money on it
>>>and I was determined to learn how to use it. Amazingly enough there was a
>>>telephone number in the material I got with it for technical support. I
>>>never called it because I didn't even know what it was for and the word
>>>technical made me think that whatever it was for it was something beyond
>>> me.
>>>
>>>Well, I had the version of open book installed on that computer that was
>>>current then and I did manage to learn how to use it. I even scanned
>>> several
>>>books for myself. The trouble is that Open Book was about the only thing I
>>>ever learned how to do with it. In 2003 I started with another computer
>>> and
>>>had Internet for the first time. Again, I had to teach myself, but
>>> knowledge
>>>builds on knowledge, so the learning was getting easier and easier. I can
>>>still say, though, that the learning experiences left me mentally
>>> exhausted.
>>>
>>>When I got on the Internet I checked out Bookshare at least once or twice,
>>>but at the time I was a bit put off by the up front 75 dollars and I
>>> started
>>>to read the help pages, but they weren't much help because I didn't even
>>>understand them. I even remembered emailing Bookshare support and asking a
>>>question and then when I got an answer I did not understand the answer. In
>>>about July of 2008 there were certain reasons that I was getting fed up
>>> with
>>>RFB&D. I resolved those problems, though, and I am still using RFB&D. But
>>> I
>>>decided to check out Bookshare again. Well, by that time I had learned
>>>enough about computers that I found myself actually understanding the help
>>>pages this time. After reading up on the site for a while I decided to
>>> give
>>>proofreading a try. It turned out to be really simple, but when I tried to
>>>upload my first effort I couldn't do it. I then subscribed to the
>>> volunteer
>>>list and asked what I was doing wrong. Bob gave me detailed enough
>>>instructions that I was successful and then I became enthusiastic about
>>>proofreading and started to do other books. Now the computer I now have
>>> has
>>>Open Book 6.0 installed on it but I had never used it. It was another case
>>>of looking into it when I first got the computer and finding that it was
>>>nothing like the version I had taught myself to use earlier and I did not
>>>understand it. If I had looked at the help menues I wouldn't have
>>> understood
>>>that either, but I did not even know how to look at the help menues. I can
>>>say that I had a fear of trying even after I was volunteering for
>>> Bookshare.
>>>
>>>Other volunteers did urge me to try, though, and in about January of 2009
>>> I
>>>did try scanning a book. Interestingly enough by then I knew where to go
>>> to
>>>look at the help menues and I read them. The first reading was kind of
>>>cryptic for me though. I then went back and read one section at a time and
>>>made myself understand it before going on and pretty soon I had scanned
>>> and
>>>submitted my first book. It was Revolution for the Hell of It by Abbie
>>>Hoffman and if you download it and if the proofer has not done a perfect
>>> job
>>>you will see that my more recent scans are a lot better, but, well, we all
>>>have to take baby steps. Now, I prefer to submit than proof. That is
>>> because
>>>if I pick out a book to scan I am much more likely to find one I am
>>> actually
>>>interested in rather than by relying on other people's preferences by
>>>picking them out of the checkout list. Now, I see you in a similar
>>> position
>>>to my own. You don't think you know anything about scanning and it seems
>>> so
>>>much of a daunting task to you that you are afraid to start. I also see
>>> you
>>>in a much more advanced state of computer knowledge than I was when I
>>>started to scan. With all the trepidation I had when I started it turned
>>> out
>>>to not be that bad after all. I am almost certain that you will find it
>>>easier to learn than I did because you already know so much more than I
>>> did
>>>when I started. I expect that you will certainly get stuck along the way
>>>here and there, but you have the volunteer list full of people using the
>>>same kind of equipment you have and I am sure that they can work with you
>>> to
>>>help you over those rough spots. Try it. You might like it.
>>>"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do
>>> because
>>>I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony
>>>
>>>The Militant:
>>>http://www.themilitant.com
>>>Pathfinder Press:
>>>http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>>Granma International:
>>>  http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:13 PM
>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group Gets
>>>Decked Out (book 7)
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dear Roger, I do thank you for your encouragement for me to scan
>>>>books. I wanted to help Valerie out. I promise you, I'll scan stuff
>>>>when I'm ready to tackle it. Regards, Kim. P.S.: Why are you worried
>>>>about this? K.
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
>>>>Bailey
>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:35 PM
>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group
>>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7)
>>>>
>>>>Kim, if you are going to buy books then rather than buying them for
>>>>someone else to scan why don't you just buy them and scan them
>>>>yourself?
>>>>"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do
>>>>because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan
>>>>B. Anthony
>>>>
>>>>The Militant:
>>>>http://www.themilitant.com
>>>>Pathfinder Press:
>>>>http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>>>Granma International:
>>>>  http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 2:50 PM
>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group
>>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi, Valerie, the offer is still open if Jamie can't get it for you.
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie
>>>>>Maples
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:28 AM
>>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group
>>>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7)
>>>>>
>>>>>You are sweet, Kim!  If Jamie cannot get it at her library that would
>>>>>be great!  If Jamie can get this one, I can proof from the bubbled
>>>>>copy as print is legible, just not working out for OCR.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks bunches, and hopefully Jamie will respond if it is available
>>>>>to her when she has time to scan.
>>>>>
>>>>>Have a great day!
>>>>>
>>>>>Valerie
>>>>>
>>>>>On Dec 24, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Kim Friedman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi, Valerie, Kim here. Would you like me to find it for you on
>>>>>>Amazon.com. I could buy it for you and send it to your address if
>>>>>>you write me back with it. Then you can scan your book for Bookshare.
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie
>>>>>>Maples
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:19 AM
>>>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Cc: Cindy
>>>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group Gets
>>>>>>Decked Out (book 7)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I regret to say that I will be unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group
>>>>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7) because of water damage to the paper back.
>>>>>>There is enough warping on the pages that I was unaware of to make
>>>>>>it too much work to produce viable scans for OCR. I would be more
>>>>>>than willing in the future, though, to check the book out again and
>>>>>>proofread. Cindy, if you could please remove it from the being
>>>>>>scanned
>>>>>group, I would be very grateful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry to anyone for the inconvenience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Valerie Maples
>>>>>>
>>>>>>currently scanning: who do i talk to?, Red Suit diaries,  Seven Days
>>>>>>at Oak Valley, Engineering the Preschool Environment for Interactive
>>>>>>Symbolic Communication
>>>>>>
>>>>>>currently proofing:  Ten Days to Self-Esteem,  My Dog Pulls, what Do
>>>>>>I Do?, The Amaranth Enchantment, The Shifter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>
>
>          --
> mailto:<the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> --
> Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have. Just dreaming
> about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the
> wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT
>
>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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>
>


-- 
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
 To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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