There are few top-notch programmers who can write a really good manual. They understand the product too well so have to guess at what other people are going to try. Just the way things are. On 12/26/09, Debby Franson <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Hi Roger! > > Some programmers are crackerjack programmers but poor manual writers. I'm > into shareware and freeware, and there is a wide range of manual writing > from poor and sketchy to very well-written and clear. > > Some software in whatever kick I am into at the time has an interface that > baffles me and then the next piece in the same given category works well > for me, because it works the way I work. > > Just playing with a piece of software by browsing it's menu system and > trying things is also a good way to learn a new package I have found. > > Debby > > At 08:19 PM 12/24/2009, Roger Loran Bailey wrote >>Well, we all have our advantages and disadvantages over each other. I do, >>indeed, have some advantages over you, but at the same time I think you >>have advantages over me and, at least from my perspective, It looks like >>you are in a better position to start scanning than I was when I started. >>As for your problem with comprehending manuals, that is exactly what I was >>talking about when I said that I read them and did not understand them. >>The secret is to take them a little at a time. Read as little as a >>sentence. Ask yourself what that sentence means. If it contains words that >>you do not know the meaning of then look them up or ask someone here on >>the list. One sentence should not be that difficult to understand and it >>should not be very daunting. Once you do understand it then that >>understanding will help you with the understanding of the next one. Soon >>you can take two, three, even more sentences at a time. I do know what >>you mean about reading manuals though. Sometimes there is something I need >>to review in a manual for something that I have gotten into using >>regularly. I go to the manual and try to find the part I need and I find >>myself reading through the whole thing looking for the part I need and not >>understanding anything. Still, though, the more I learn the easier it gets >>to learn the next thing and the more I learn about a device the quicker I >>can go to the part of the manual I need. There are even a few things that >>I can learn now in about fifteen minutes that even a year ago would have >>taken a week and every day of that week I would felt like I had run a >>marathon. And I really am referring to exhaustion. The effects of mental >>exhaustion are not very different from physical exhaustion. It leaves you >>just wanting to fall into the oblivion of sleep. >> >>By the way, I just thought of another example of a manual that is >>impenetrable. Some time back there was a discussion of a text editor on >>this list called Ed Sharp. It was recommended as a good program for >>editing books for Bookshare. I downloaded it. I have yet to understand the >>slightest thing about how to use it. The help pages, the menues, >>everything about it is completely incomprehensible to me. All I can say is >>that it seems to be designed by techno people who assume that all users >>will also be techno people. >>"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do >>because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. >>Anthony >> >>The Militant: >>http://www.themilitant.com >>Pathfinder Press: >>http://www.pathfinderpress.com >>Granma International: >> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 8:49 PM >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Responding to your messageRE: Re: unable to scan >>yada yada Prayer Group Gets Decked Out (book 7) >> >> >>>Hi, Roger, I am one of these people who falls asleep when I have to read a >>>manual. By proofreading, I'm learning some controls in Microsoft Word 2003 >>>that I didn't know or forgot. In the '90's, I went to an occupational >>> center >>>to learn how to use the computer. The problem was that the computer wasn't >>>accessible and a sighted person had to read the screen over my shoulder. >>> Not >>>a thing to make one feel capable or competent. So I can say I was >>>intimidated and insecure when it came to computers. I didn't have any idea >>>what a computer should have, even. Do I know what I'd need if I had to buy >>>one? I sort of know in a general way, but you can't call me by any stretch >>>of the imagination a techie. I think you have a bit of an advantage over >>> me >>>because you remember print and what it's like. I have handled >>>three-dimensional representations of block print letters but have never >>> seen >>>print. I learned to type in fifth grade and I'm typing now on this >>> computer, >>>but I don't know what print books are like. I know they're between covers >>>and the print can be written in different styles, but I don't understand >>>those styles. I too didn't get on the Internet until last year because I >>>didn't have a computer then. One thing I'd also like to understand and >>>that's computer audio (another thing that intimidates me). I think what >>>helps me is being able to talk to other users who can translate what they >>>know from computerese into English. One thing I have done is to write down >>>procedures in language I can understand so it is there in case I need to >>> do >>>a particular thing again, e.g., how to defrag a computer disk. I'm glad I >>>wrote that one down. Also, there are some web sites where downloading >>> stuff >>>is easy whereas other web sites are more difficult. One thing I can >>> promise >>>you is if I know something you don't know, I will do my best to explain it >>>to you. I think that two-way conversation is very effective when it comes >>>down to understanding things because if you ask a question they can >>> clarify >>>things for you, at least it helps me. Regards, Kim. P.S.: I hope you have >>>more friends who can help you out. I applaud your ability to parse out >>> what >>>to do, but I think things go a lot faster once you have a support group of >>>people who are routing for you. K. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran >>> Bailey >>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:17 PM >>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group Gets >>>Decked Out (book 7) >>> >>>Why am I worried about it? Well, I don't suppose I am really worried. It >>>just kind of bothers me that someone is afraid of tackling something that >>> I >>>am almost certain the person will find quite easy once it is tackled. >>> Really >>>, it is not that hard. And even if it does turn out to be not something >>> you >>>want to continue with you can always stop. I say that with knowledge of my >>>own experience. I first got a computer back in the 1990s and I was really >>>lucky to be able to figure out how to even plug it in. I was completely on >>>my own with no help whatsoever, but I had spent a good bit of money on it >>>and I was determined to learn how to use it. Amazingly enough there was a >>>telephone number in the material I got with it for technical support. I >>>never called it because I didn't even know what it was for and the word >>>technical made me think that whatever it was for it was something beyond >>> me. >>> >>>Well, I had the version of open book installed on that computer that was >>>current then and I did manage to learn how to use it. I even scanned >>> several >>>books for myself. The trouble is that Open Book was about the only thing I >>>ever learned how to do with it. In 2003 I started with another computer >>> and >>>had Internet for the first time. Again, I had to teach myself, but >>> knowledge >>>builds on knowledge, so the learning was getting easier and easier. I can >>>still say, though, that the learning experiences left me mentally >>> exhausted. >>> >>>When I got on the Internet I checked out Bookshare at least once or twice, >>>but at the time I was a bit put off by the up front 75 dollars and I >>> started >>>to read the help pages, but they weren't much help because I didn't even >>>understand them. I even remembered emailing Bookshare support and asking a >>>question and then when I got an answer I did not understand the answer. In >>>about July of 2008 there were certain reasons that I was getting fed up >>> with >>>RFB&D. I resolved those problems, though, and I am still using RFB&D. But >>> I >>>decided to check out Bookshare again. Well, by that time I had learned >>>enough about computers that I found myself actually understanding the help >>>pages this time. After reading up on the site for a while I decided to >>> give >>>proofreading a try. It turned out to be really simple, but when I tried to >>>upload my first effort I couldn't do it. I then subscribed to the >>> volunteer >>>list and asked what I was doing wrong. Bob gave me detailed enough >>>instructions that I was successful and then I became enthusiastic about >>>proofreading and started to do other books. Now the computer I now have >>> has >>>Open Book 6.0 installed on it but I had never used it. It was another case >>>of looking into it when I first got the computer and finding that it was >>>nothing like the version I had taught myself to use earlier and I did not >>>understand it. If I had looked at the help menues I wouldn't have >>> understood >>>that either, but I did not even know how to look at the help menues. I can >>>say that I had a fear of trying even after I was volunteering for >>> Bookshare. >>> >>>Other volunteers did urge me to try, though, and in about January of 2009 >>> I >>>did try scanning a book. Interestingly enough by then I knew where to go >>> to >>>look at the help menues and I read them. The first reading was kind of >>>cryptic for me though. I then went back and read one section at a time and >>>made myself understand it before going on and pretty soon I had scanned >>> and >>>submitted my first book. It was Revolution for the Hell of It by Abbie >>>Hoffman and if you download it and if the proofer has not done a perfect >>> job >>>you will see that my more recent scans are a lot better, but, well, we all >>>have to take baby steps. Now, I prefer to submit than proof. That is >>> because >>>if I pick out a book to scan I am much more likely to find one I am >>> actually >>>interested in rather than by relying on other people's preferences by >>>picking them out of the checkout list. Now, I see you in a similar >>> position >>>to my own. You don't think you know anything about scanning and it seems >>> so >>>much of a daunting task to you that you are afraid to start. I also see >>> you >>>in a much more advanced state of computer knowledge than I was when I >>>started to scan. With all the trepidation I had when I started it turned >>> out >>>to not be that bad after all. I am almost certain that you will find it >>>easier to learn than I did because you already know so much more than I >>> did >>>when I started. I expect that you will certainly get stuck along the way >>>here and there, but you have the volunteer list full of people using the >>>same kind of equipment you have and I am sure that they can work with you >>> to >>>help you over those rough spots. Try it. You might like it. >>>"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do >>> because >>>I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony >>> >>>The Militant: >>>http://www.themilitant.com >>>Pathfinder Press: >>>http://www.pathfinderpress.com >>>Granma International: >>> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:13 PM >>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group Gets >>>Decked Out (book 7) >>> >>> >>>>Dear Roger, I do thank you for your encouragement for me to scan >>>>books. I wanted to help Valerie out. I promise you, I'll scan stuff >>>>when I'm ready to tackle it. Regards, Kim. P.S.: Why are you worried >>>>about this? K. >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran >>>>Bailey >>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:35 PM >>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group >>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7) >>>> >>>>Kim, if you are going to buy books then rather than buying them for >>>>someone else to scan why don't you just buy them and scan them >>>>yourself? >>>>"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do >>>>because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan >>>>B. Anthony >>>> >>>>The Militant: >>>>http://www.themilitant.com >>>>Pathfinder Press: >>>>http://www.pathfinderpress.com >>>>Granma International: >>>> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group >>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7) >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi, Valerie, the offer is still open if Jamie can't get it for you. >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Kim. >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie >>>>>Maples >>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:28 AM >>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group >>>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7) >>>>> >>>>>You are sweet, Kim! If Jamie cannot get it at her library that would >>>>>be great! If Jamie can get this one, I can proof from the bubbled >>>>>copy as print is legible, just not working out for OCR. >>>>> >>>>>Thanks bunches, and hopefully Jamie will respond if it is available >>>>>to her when she has time to scan. >>>>> >>>>>Have a great day! >>>>> >>>>>Valerie >>>>> >>>>>On Dec 24, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Kim Friedman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi, Valerie, Kim here. Would you like me to find it for you on >>>>>>Amazon.com. I could buy it for you and send it to your address if >>>>>>you write me back with it. Then you can scan your book for Bookshare. >>>>>>Regards, >>>>>Kim. >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie >>>>>>Maples >>>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:19 AM >>>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>Cc: Cindy >>>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group Gets >>>>>>Decked Out (book 7) >>>>>> >>>>>>I regret to say that I will be unable to scan yada yada Prayer Group >>>>>>Gets Decked Out (book 7) because of water damage to the paper back. >>>>>>There is enough warping on the pages that I was unaware of to make >>>>>>it too much work to produce viable scans for OCR. I would be more >>>>>>than willing in the future, though, to check the book out again and >>>>>>proofread. Cindy, if you could please remove it from the being >>>>>>scanned >>>>>group, I would be very grateful. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sorry to anyone for the inconvenience. >>>>>> >>>>>>Valerie Maples >>>>>> >>>>>>currently scanning: who do i talk to?, Red Suit diaries, Seven Days >>>>>>at Oak Valley, Engineering the Preschool Environment for Interactive >>>>>>Symbolic Communication >>>>>> >>>>>>currently proofing: Ten Days to Self-Esteem, My Dog Pulls, what Do >>>>>>I Do?, The Amaranth Enchantment, The Shifter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>>>>list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>>>>>subject >>>>>line. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>signature database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>signature database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>>>>list >>>>>of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject >>>>> line. >>>>> >>>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>>>list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>>>>subject line. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>signature database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>>>> >>>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>>http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>signature database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>>>> >>>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>>http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>>>list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>>>>subject >>>>line. >>>> >>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>>list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>>>subject line. >>>> >>>> >>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>signature database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>>> >>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>signature database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>>> >>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>signature database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>>> >>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>>list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject >>>line. >>> >>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list >>> of >>>available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>>database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>>database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>>database 4715 (20091224) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list >>>of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. >> >>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list >>of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: >>12/25/09 03:33:00 > > > -- > mailto:<the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx> > -- > Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have. Just dreaming > about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the > wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > > -- Soronel Haetir soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.