Amen to that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 9:03 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to the collection that are really only good You perfectionists keep your cotton-pickin fingers off of my book! <lol> Seriously, as much as is possible when I run across a questionable error, if it could be considered a scanning error in some way I'll correct it. But, if there's no way it could be a scanno then I'll let the publisher show his sloppiness and leave it alone, as much as it hurts to do it. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "eric troup" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:45 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to the collection that are really only good > <sheepish grin> So do I, but I'd read somewhere, as far as I can > remember, that it was frowned upon, considered interfering with original > content. <Shrug> > On 17 Apr 2008, at 21:26, Cindy Ray wrote: > >> I do fix things like that. >> >> Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "eric troup" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:25 PM >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to >> the collection that are really only good >> >> >> I suppose you're right, but I have a real hard time not correcting >> things like "He begin to notice he was sweating as the lights >> dimmed." I know we're not supposed to fix it, but dammit, that's >> supposed to be "began to notice!" Don't get me wrong, I don't fix >> sentence structure or anything intrusive like that, but there are >> times when it was clearly an editor's oops, and I do have a hard time >> not fixing those. They jump out at me like muggers on a darkly-lit >> street. >> >> On 17 Apr 2008, at 10:31, Lora wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Like you, I don't do a global find and replace, because that can >>> result in >>> new and interesting errors that need to be fixed later. But like >>> you, when >>> I find an error, I do a find, and replace things on a one at a time >>> basis. >>> >>> Yes, we can spell check as we read. JAWS will announce spelling >>> errors. >>> You just need to make sure it's not announcing grammar errors, too, >>> as that >>> can become annoying. Many novels don't quite pass the grammar >>> check, and it >>> reports lots of false errors. Besides, we're not here to correct >>> grammar. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Grandma >>> Cindy >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:50 PM >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added >>> to the >>> collection that are really only good >>> >>> My method is slightly different from yours, though I've thought of >>> doing a >>> spell-check first. However, I don't. I read the book with the spell- >>> check >>> on--I don't know if blind people can do that or if it would be too >>> annoying. >>> I correct as I go, and when I find an incorrect word that us >>> actually a real >>> word but not the right one, I do a find and replace for others--not >>> a global >>> replace, though; I've been caught too many times having changed >>> things that >>> shouldn't have been changed and having to go back and correct them >>> and I've >>> learned my lesson. When I've finished reading the book, I do a final >>> spell-check, and usually I do find a few--very few--words that I've >>> missed--and I do a final page-number check. >>> >>> I don't validate indices or bibliographies, but I don't delete them, >>> either. >>> I offer to do them later if a reader would like me to. >>> >>> G.Cindy >>> >>> >>>> Hi Judy and Others, >>>> >>>> I am always surprised when I download an excellent book and find >>>> that >>>> it's definitely not. Although these books are frustrating >>>> discoveries, I think the majority of Excellent books are deserving >>>> of >>>> that rating. >>>> >>>> Getting a book up to that rating is a joint effort, though. Like >>>> you, >>>> I appreciate the scanners' comments, explaining the validation >>>> steps >>>> that they followed before submitting the book. It doesn't change >>>> my >>>> approach to validating, but it informs me of how much time my >>>> validation process is likely to take. >>>> >>>> For what it's worth, I begin by searching for the number 1, in >>>> combinations such as 1 1' 1. 1? And so forth. >>>> >>>> I then search for random characters that typically don't belong in >>>> the >>>> book: >>>> caret, accent, tilde, percent, pound, and so on. By finding these >>>> and >>>> eliminating them, if appropriate, I get an overall glimpse of how >>>> much >>>> validating needs to be done. >>>> >>>> Spell-check or not to spell-check: I then make a determination on >>>> whether I'll run the spellchecker. For most novels and nonfiction, >>>> I >>>> will; but for books such as Buddhism in Action, where I'm battling >>>> two >>>> spelling problems, lots of Hindi words and lots of scanographical >>>> errors that resulted in actual words, I've determined that it isn't >>>> worth it to run spell check. >>>> I'll rely on my full reading of the book to catch errors. >>>> >>>> I then scan for common scanos, such as die for the and comer for >>>> corner. If I don't find lots of these, I figure it's a good sign. >>>> >>>> I usually then start reading the book. Since I'm going to read >>>> straight through, this is when I check things like whether all the >>>> pages are there, whether lines are missing, whether certain text is >>>> garbled, etc. >>>> >>>> I've found that there are errors that are better caught with >>>> speech, >>>> and other errors better caught with Braille. >>>> >>>> Example: One excellent book I downloaded might have read all right >>>> with Braille, but was a nightmare when I read it with speech. This >>>> was a book I wanted to read, and one I did read, even though there >>>> weren't spaces after quotation marks, resulting in things like, "I >>>> hate this,"she said. (Funny thing is, JAWS reads this just fine, >>>> but >>>> my Pacmate tried to run this and she together because there was no >>>> space. It did this all through the book, because neither the >>>> scanner >>>> or validator went in and put spaces after the quotation marks. >>>> This >>>> is the kind of thing we need to find good ways to catch. >>>> >>>> Finally, if the book has indices or other extras, I make a >>>> determination as to whether they can be salvaged. I think I've >>>> only >>>> ever deleted one index, which was very nearly garbled beyond >>>> recognition. >>>> It was for a very short >>>> book, and I felt it didn't add much to the book. >>>> >>>> As I'm uploading, I review everything that will be visible when the >>>> book goes into the collection. For instance, I check the short and >>>> long synopses, title, author, publisher, copyright date, ISBN, and >>>> the >>>> selected categories and adult rating etc., to make sure it looks >>>> good. >>>> >>>> I'm not saying I won't miss things, but this is the rough process I >>>> use. >>>> >>>> One of my frustrations is when a scanner uploads a book and marks >>>> it >>>> as excellent, and then I open the book and it's clearly not. I >>>> downloaded one recently where I found lots of missing words or >>>> garbled >>>> lines, and I knew I wouldn't be able to correct it easily. I >>>> simply >>>> returned the book to step one, as I figured it'd take more effort >>>> to >>>> fix it than I felt I could manage. I guess I could see how it >>>> might >>>> have gotten an excellent rating, as there were good-sized chunks of >>>> very readable text, but when it went bad, it was really bad. I'd >>>> appreciate an honest rating. >>>> The book probably >>>> deserved good, which at least would have warned potential >>>> validators >>>> that it would require a fair bit of work. >>>> >>>> May I ask scanners how they determine whether to rate their >>>> submissions as good or excellent? >>>> >>>> And I'd love to see Bookshare scan the book on initial submission, >>>> and >>>> offer a potential rating. Does it do this yet? I know it's >>>> something >>>> we've talked about in the past. >>>> >>>> Finally, I'd love to see a way to leave a comment as to why a >>>> validator returned a book to step one. This could include comments >>>> such as: Frequent Hindi words; not familiar enough to validate ... >>>> Or >>>> has lots of pictures that will require interpretation by a sighted >>>> person ... Or even ... This book has too many errors for me to >>>> validate at this time. >>>> >>>> I hope there's value in some of this. Mostly, it's just me >>>> thinking >>>> publicly. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judy s. >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:08 PM >>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Books rated excellent recently added to >>>> the >>>> collection that are really only good >>>> >>>> Let me add my 'ditto' to the complaints posted here today about >>>> books >>>> entering the collection recently that aren't up to snuff. >>>> >>>> I was just crabbing off-list to Grandma Cindy about this last week. >>>> I've downloaded several books this last month that had just entered >>>> the collection which had many obvious errors, but were rated >>>> excellent. I've certainly missed stuff myself when validating, >>>> even >>>> though I read through every single book I validate, but the errors >>>> I >>>> found in downloaded books were things like chapter after chapter >>>> with >>>> "1" >>>> instead of "I" in the text. >>>> >>>> As a validator, I appreciate scanners like Shelley and Mayrie (and >>>> many >>>> others) who put in their comments whether or not they've read the >>>> scan >>>> through, if they've spell-checked it, stripped headings, verified >>>> page >>>> numbers and the like. >>>> I'm much more likely to download a book from the step 1 list if >>>> that >>>> information is available, because I know what to expect and can >>>> judge >>>> how much time I will have to allocate to give that book the >>>> attention >>>> it might need. >>>> >>>> Judy s. >>>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>>> subject line. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>>> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>>> subject line. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ***WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE BOOKSHARE >>> COLLECTION)IS >>> AVAILABLE AT >>> http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm >>> http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/ >>> http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm >>> >>> A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS AVAILABLE AT >>> http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/scanning.html >>> >>> Jake's site for useful links: http://www.jbrownell.com/bkslinks.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> ________ >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and >>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>> list of >>> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject >>> line. >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >>> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >>> subject line. >>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a >> list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the >> subject line. >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list >> of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject >> line. >> > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release > Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.1/1385 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 9:30 AM