[bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to the collection that are really only good
- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:09:59 -0500
I think there is a time for that decision and a time to fix it. I try
to use discretion about it.
Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <rwiley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 8:03 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to
the collection that are really only good
You perfectionists keep your cotton-pickin fingers off of my book!
<lol>
Seriously, as much as is possible when I run across a questionable
error, if
it could be considered a scanning error in some way I'll correct it.
But, if
there's no way it could be a scanno then I'll let the publisher show
his
sloppiness and leave it alone, as much as it hurts to do it.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "eric troup" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added to
the
collection that are really only good
> <sheepish grin> So do I, but I'd read somewhere, as far as I can
> remember, that it was frowned upon, considered interfering with
> original
> content. <Shrug>
> On 17 Apr 2008, at 21:26, Cindy Ray wrote:
>
>> I do fix things like that.
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "eric troup" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:25 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added
>> to
>> the collection that are really only good
>>
>>
>> I suppose you're right, but I have a real hard time not correcting
>> things like "He begin to notice he was sweating as the lights
>> dimmed." I know we're not supposed to fix it, but dammit, that's
>> supposed to be "began to notice!" Don't get me wrong, I don't fix
>> sentence structure or anything intrusive like that, but there are
>> times when it was clearly an editor's oops, and I do have a hard
>> time
>> not fixing those. They jump out at me like muggers on a darkly-lit
>> street.
>>
>> On 17 Apr 2008, at 10:31, Lora wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Like you, I don't do a global find and replace, because that can
>>> result in
>>> new and interesting errors that need to be fixed later. But like
>>> you, when
>>> I find an error, I do a find, and replace things on a one at a
>>> time
>>> basis.
>>>
>>> Yes, we can spell check as we read. JAWS will announce spelling
>>> errors.
>>> You just need to make sure it's not announcing grammar errors,
>>> too,
>>> as that
>>> can become annoying. Many novels don't quite pass the grammar
>>> check, and it
>>> reports lots of false errors. Besides, we're not here to correct
>>> grammar.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Grandma
>>> Cindy
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:50 PM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent recently added
>>> to the
>>> collection that are really only good
>>>
>>> My method is slightly different from yours, though I've thought of
>>> doing a
>>> spell-check first. However, I don't. I read the book with the
>>> spell-
>>> check
>>> on--I don't know if blind people can do that or if it would be too
>>> annoying.
>>> I correct as I go, and when I find an incorrect word that us
>>> actually a real
>>> word but not the right one, I do a find and replace for
>>> others--not
>>> a global
>>> replace, though; I've been caught too many times having changed
>>> things that
>>> shouldn't have been changed and having to go back and correct them
>>> and I've
>>> learned my lesson. When I've finished reading the book, I do a
>>> final
>>> spell-check, and usually I do find a few--very few--words that
>>> I've
>>> missed--and I do a final page-number check.
>>>
>>> I don't validate indices or bibliographies, but I don't delete
>>> them,
>>> either.
>>> I offer to do them later if a reader would like me to.
>>>
>>> G.Cindy
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Judy and Others,
>>>>
>>>> I am always surprised when I download an excellent book and find
>>>> that
>>>> it's definitely not. Although these books are frustrating
>>>> discoveries, I think the majority of Excellent books are
>>>> deserving
>>>> of
>>>> that rating.
>>>>
>>>> Getting a book up to that rating is a joint effort, though. Like
>>>> you,
>>>> I appreciate the scanners' comments, explaining the validation
>>>> steps
>>>> that they followed before submitting the book. It doesn't change
>>>> my
>>>> approach to validating, but it informs me of how much time my
>>>> validation process is likely to take.
>>>>
>>>> For what it's worth, I begin by searching for the number 1, in
>>>> combinations such as 1 1' 1. 1? And so forth.
>>>>
>>>> I then search for random characters that typically don't belong
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> book:
>>>> caret, accent, tilde, percent, pound, and so on. By finding
>>>> these
>>>> and
>>>> eliminating them, if appropriate, I get an overall glimpse of how
>>>> much
>>>> validating needs to be done.
>>>>
>>>> Spell-check or not to spell-check: I then make a determination
>>>> on
>>>> whether I'll run the spellchecker. For most novels and
>>>> nonfiction,
>>>> I
>>>> will; but for books such as Buddhism in Action, where I'm
>>>> battling
>>>> two
>>>> spelling problems, lots of Hindi words and lots of scanographical
>>>> errors that resulted in actual words, I've determined that it
>>>> isn't
>>>> worth it to run spell check.
>>>> I'll rely on my full reading of the book to catch errors.
>>>>
>>>> I then scan for common scanos, such as die for the and comer for
>>>> corner. If I don't find lots of these, I figure it's a good
>>>> sign.
>>>>
>>>> I usually then start reading the book. Since I'm going to read
>>>> straight through, this is when I check things like whether all
>>>> the
>>>> pages are there, whether lines are missing, whether certain text
>>>> is
>>>> garbled, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I've found that there are errors that are better caught with
>>>> speech,
>>>> and other errors better caught with Braille.
>>>>
>>>> Example: One excellent book I downloaded might have read all
>>>> right
>>>> with Braille, but was a nightmare when I read it with speech.
>>>> This
>>>> was a book I wanted to read, and one I did read, even though
>>>> there
>>>> weren't spaces after quotation marks, resulting in things like,
>>>> "I
>>>> hate this,"she said. (Funny thing is, JAWS reads this just fine,
>>>> but
>>>> my Pacmate tried to run this and she together because there was
>>>> no
>>>> space. It did this all through the book, because neither the
>>>> scanner
>>>> or validator went in and put spaces after the quotation marks.
>>>> This
>>>> is the kind of thing we need to find good ways to catch.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, if the book has indices or other extras, I make a
>>>> determination as to whether they can be salvaged. I think I've
>>>> only
>>>> ever deleted one index, which was very nearly garbled beyond
>>>> recognition.
>>>> It was for a very short
>>>> book, and I felt it didn't add much to the book.
>>>>
>>>> As I'm uploading, I review everything that will be visible when
>>>> the
>>>> book goes into the collection. For instance, I check the short
>>>> and
>>>> long synopses, title, author, publisher, copyright date, ISBN,
>>>> and
>>>> the
>>>> selected categories and adult rating etc., to make sure it looks
>>>> good.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying I won't miss things, but this is the rough process
>>>> I
>>>> use.
>>>>
>>>> One of my frustrations is when a scanner uploads a book and marks
>>>> it
>>>> as excellent, and then I open the book and it's clearly not. I
>>>> downloaded one recently where I found lots of missing words or
>>>> garbled
>>>> lines, and I knew I wouldn't be able to correct it easily. I
>>>> simply
>>>> returned the book to step one, as I figured it'd take more effort
>>>> to
>>>> fix it than I felt I could manage. I guess I could see how it
>>>> might
>>>> have gotten an excellent rating, as there were good-sized chunks
>>>> of
>>>> very readable text, but when it went bad, it was really bad. I'd
>>>> appreciate an honest rating.
>>>> The book probably
>>>> deserved good, which at least would have warned potential
>>>> validators
>>>> that it would require a fair bit of work.
>>>>
>>>> May I ask scanners how they determine whether to rate their
>>>> submissions as good or excellent?
>>>>
>>>> And I'd love to see Bookshare scan the book on initial
>>>> submission,
>>>> and
>>>> offer a potential rating. Does it do this yet? I know it's
>>>> something
>>>> we've talked about in the past.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, I'd love to see a way to leave a comment as to why a
>>>> validator returned a book to step one. This could include
>>>> comments
>>>> such as: Frequent Hindi words; not familiar enough to validate
>>>> ...
>>>> Or
>>>> has lots of pictures that will require interpretation by a
>>>> sighted
>>>> person ... Or even ... This book has too many errors for me to
>>>> validate at this time.
>>>>
>>>> I hope there's value in some of this. Mostly, it's just me
>>>> thinking
>>>> publicly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judy s.
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:08 PM
>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Books rated excellent recently added to
>>>> the
>>>> collection that are really only good
>>>>
>>>> Let me add my 'ditto' to the complaints posted here today about
>>>> books
>>>> entering the collection recently that aren't up to snuff.
>>>>
>>>> I was just crabbing off-list to Grandma Cindy about this last
>>>> week.
>>>> I've downloaded several books this last month that had just
>>>> entered
>>>> the collection which had many obvious errors, but were rated
>>>> excellent. I've certainly missed stuff myself when validating,
>>>> even
>>>> though I read through every single book I validate, but the
>>>> errors
>>>> I
>>>> found in downloaded books were things like chapter after chapter
>>>> with
>>>> "1"
>>>> instead of "I" in the text.
>>>>
>>>> As a validator, I appreciate scanners like Shelley and Mayrie
>>>> (and
>>>> many
>>>> others) who put in their comments whether or not they've read the
>>>> scan
>>>> through, if they've spell-checked it, stripped headings, verified
>>>> page
>>>> numbers and the like.
>>>> I'm much more likely to download a book from the step 1 list if
>>>> that
>>>> information is available, because I know what to expect and can
>>>> judge
>>>> how much time I will have to allocate to give that book the
>>>> attention
>>>> it might need.
>>>>
>>>> Judy s.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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>>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE BOOKSHARE
>>> COLLECTION)IS
>>> AVAILABLE AT
>>> http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
>>> http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
>>> http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm
>>>
>>> A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS AVAILABLE AT
>>> http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/scanning.html
>>>
>>> Jake's site for useful links:
>>> http://www.jbrownell.com/bkslinks.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>> ________
>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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>>>
>>
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