[bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
You've clarified rather than confused things for me, Chela, thank you. I was
confused because the enlarging of chapter titles is to make it easier for Daisy
users and whoever (was it Denise?) mentioned the added inconvenience of
enlarging chapter titles seemed to think it benefited sighted rather than blind
users.
Cindy
Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and books-being-scanned
list available at sites below
Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
Books Being Scanned List:
https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Chela Robles <cdrobles693@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Chela Robles <cdrobles693@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:06 PM
Depends on what they prefer, Cindy, for example, I
like to read technical books in Daisy and others in brf, also depends on what I
use to listen to it, my pac mate has a daisy player called FSReader and I'm
going to start using it. It also depends on what I'm in the mood for, Chela
hopes she didn't confuse anyone sighted on this list, grin!
----- Original Message -----
From:
Cindy
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:40
PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Are
volunteers really that important anymore?
I'm curious. Don't blind people use Daisy as well as or
instead of Braille? I was under the impression (possibly the
mis-impression) that that was how people listened to
the books on bookshare
Cindy
Wish List (i.e., books wanted
added to the collection) and books-being-scanned list available at
sites
below
Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
Books
Being Scanned List:
https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
---
On Thu, 8/27/09, Denise Thompson <deniset@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
From:
Denise Thompson <deniset@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss]
Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
To:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 2:37
PM
Judy
I'm behind the times. I didn't
realize BS had broadened it's focus. I'm glad if it benefits you. I
just don't want people who are blind to get lost in the process since
that was the original reason for BS's existance. Right now all I know
is that its getting harder for us to contribute. Probably we've gone
about as far as we can with this discussion on the list. Hopefully BS
staff are listening and will consider what has been
said.
Denise
At 12:38 PM 8/27/2009, you
wrote:
> Denise, you asked about who is benefiting from all the
changes. I can certainly understand your frustration.
smile
>
> I think that many of the the changes are coming
about because Bookshare's members are expanding to include more
disabled individuals like myself who are fully sighted but have other
serious disabilities that prevent us from reading printed
books.
>
> A bookshare book that "sounds" fine to a blind
individual is often virtually unreadable to a sighted disabled person
who relies on visually reading the book from their computer
screen.
>
> Imagine listening to a book where the
narrator is randomly shouting one word, whispering the next, or
stopping in the middle of a sentence then starting again as if it
were
a new sentence. It would be an unpleasant experience to have to read
books if this was the norm.
>
> That's the equivalent of
what it's like to visually read a book that hasn't had the formatting
of a book cleaned up in the way that's now being suggested.
smile.
>
> Things in written text that don't make a
difference to a blind reader make an enormous difference to a sighted
disabled reader. For example, having the chapter titles in
larger fonts makes a huge difference in readability for visual
navigation, too, not just for DAISY navigation.
>
> One
thing that doesn't make much difference to me at least, however, is
the inclusion of images in fiction books, as least those that are
geared towards a young adult or adult audience. They're nice to have,
sort of like having a narrator who can speak in different accents for
different characters in a book, but not necessary. smile.
The same might be true of mostly-picture-books for children, but I
can't speak to that.
>
> I hope that gives at peek into
why I believe some of the changes are happening. smile.
>
> Judy s.
>
>
> Denise Thompson
wrote:
>> I think we have noticed it, but no one right now is
prepared to deal with it since it was once the foundation of the
organization itself. It was one of the big draws in the beginning
which led to many news stories and funding.
>> The other
issue for me is who is benefitting from all the changes. I mean the
changes in terms of the correct preciseness of books scanned now.
Certainly phe push to get rid of garbled text and scannos is
wonderful
and can easily be done today with impprooved OCR software. The other
things though I wonder. It's true that I read in the Daisy format
very
seldom. Mostly I quickly convert my books to text and put them on my
phone to read. When I'm listening to a book, it sounds exactly the
same to me if it has paragraph marks at the end of each line or
double
paragraph marks for real paragraphs. It sounds the same if chapter
titles are in 16 point font or in 12 point. The only real factor that
affects me as a blind person listening to the book is the cleanness
of
the scan. I know that the other factors mentioned work better in a
Daisy translation and create better divisions on a daisy player.
Perhaps for text books this is more important, but for reading for
pleasure, it makes no difference in listening, but makes a whole lot
of difference in scanning, proofing and getting a book accepted into
the library.
>> My last thought on this is a concern about
pictures. I foresee a time when people who are blind will no longer
be
able to scan because it will become important that the pictures be
included. Now I go through the new books and there is the added
choice
of downloading daisy with images. In the last book I scanned I was
aware there were some pictures, but I'm not able to really deal with
them because I can't tell how over all they are affecting the page
lay
out. I deleted them when I knew one was there. I knew one was there
primarily by accident if it was at the top of the page as I checked
for a paragraph mark I would be told a picture was there. I don't
know
if I got them all or if some still remained. The book was accepted,
but I don't know what the proofer had to do in order to make that
happened. I may not be expressing myself well, but its almost now as
if we're creating books that would pass in the sighted world with all
the same bells and whistles. It seems that maybe we're loosing sight
of the mission a bit. But, again, I guess if the books can be done
with all the bells and whistles more quickly without us and we still
get the benefit of the greater numbers, maybe it doesn't
matter.
>> Denise
>>
>>
>> At
10:36 AM 8/27/2009, you wrote:
>>> If I had a stack of
those gay and lesbian books on hand I can imagine that I might send
them off to Bookshare and I might be out the postage and the cost of
the books if I had bought them, but I would also be out many hours of
volunteer labor to get them into the collection. I am not
particularly
interested in children's picture books, so I have not downloaded any,
but I would think that outsourcers could handle them. I think that
Pavi, in fact, said that the more difficult books have priority for
being outsourced. The main thing I have noticed, though, is that the
proportion of books added to the collection by means other than
volunteers is now considerably greater than the proportion added by
volunteers and that proportion is growing. Also, a good many books
already in the collection by means of volunteers are being replaced
by
other means. Furthermore, the proportion that are being added by
volunteers could , in most cases, be done faster and just as easily
or
more easily, by those other means. No one has mentioned it. In fact,
the Bookshare staff is proceeding away with more and more innovations
for volunteers. What I was really wondering is whether volunteering
is
becoming obsolete and nobody has noticed it.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Can a nation be free if it
oppresses other nations? It cannot." Vladimir Lenin
>>>
>>> The
Militant: http://www.themilitant.com
<http://wwww.themilitant.com>Pathfinder Press: http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>>
Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>>
_
>>>
>>> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
>>>
Subj:Â
>>> [bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that
important anymore?  Â
>>> Date:Â
>>>
8/27/2009 4:25:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time Â
>>>
From:Â
>>> rwiley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxÂ
Â
>>> Reply-to:Â
>>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxÂ
Â
>>> To:Â
>>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxÂ
Â
>>> Sent from the Internet
>>>
(Details)Â
>>> table end
>>>
>>>
Roger, this is an excellent summary of some of the things I have also
been thinking.Â
>>>
>>> When I first started
with bookshare a couple of years ago, there were tons of books whose
rating was fair, and in most cases that designation was
kind.
>>> But, the books were available, and for a group
starving for reading material, they were great to have.
Â
>>>
>>> However, our tastes--and our
tolerances--have improved. Where once we would accept day-old bread
because we were starving, we now want freshly baked
goods.
>>> (Wow, I must be hungry).Â
>>>
>>> So, I think your comments about the changing role of
the volunteer are right on target. There will always be a need for
volunteers to do the specialty books
>>> (such as
children's books with pictures), and books of special interest. I
can't imagine NLS having a whole category of gay and lesbian books,
nor can
>>> I imagine the department of education wanting
their money going toward that end. (I'm not being critical, just
can't
imagine it happening.) But, we volunteers
>>> can make it
happen. We can also put books in the collection from those publishers
who won't cooperate with us (after all, we have the law on our
side).Â
>>>
>>> In short, I see the role of
the volunteer changing, but not going away any time
soon.Â
>>>
>>> There's an old Chinese proverb
that says "may you live in interesting times." I've always wondered
whether that was a curse, challenge or a blessing.
Whatever
>>> it is, we live in very interesting times with
bookshare.Â
>>>
>>> BobÂ
>>>
>>> “We know the future will outlast all of us, but I
believe that all of us will live on in the future we
make,�
>>> Senator Edward M. Kennedy
>>>
>>> block quote
>>> ----- Original Message
-----
>>>
>>> From:
>>> Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
>>>
>>> To:
>>> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:22
PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Are
volunteers really that important anymore?
>>>
>>> I am not taking a position one way or another. I just
thought I would express some thoughts and questions that have been
running through my mind. I have
>>> been involved with
Bookshare for just a little over a year now and have seen some
considerable changes. I have also surmised changes that came about
before
>>> I came along. As I understand it the name
Bookshare was literal in the beginning. That is, people posted the
books they had scanned for themselves and
>>> actually
shared them with others who were posting books they had scanned for
themselves. That would have meant that the only source of books
Bookshare
>>> had for the most part was from the
volunteers. Since then, though, publishers have come to contribute
large numbers of books. Bookshare is acquiring books
>>>
from donations or from buying them and scanning them in house or
outsourcing them. It actually appears that the number of books added
to the collection
>>> by means other than volunteers is
considerably greater than those added by the volunteers. I have
noticed other things being done that volunteers do
that
>>> may be being done more prolifically by other
means than by volunteers. On more than one occasion now I have made a
quality report for a book that contained
>>> an error or
errors. To my surprise the whole entire book was promptly replaced by
an outsourcer. That makes me wonder why we should bother with
scanning
>>> a BSO. Volunteers are more and more
frequently finding that the books they intend to scan are being added
by outsourcers before the volunteer get a chance
>>> to
add it. Yes, that means that the volunteer can work on something
else,
but it still remains that work that would have been done by a
volunteer is being
>>> done otherwise. We were asked for
some suggestions about gaps in the collection and I made a
suggestion.
As I scan the new books lists I see that it appears,
>>>
to my gratification, that my suggestions are being acted on. I am
pleased, but I cannot help noticing that it is being done without
volunteers. If time
>>> is money I wonder if it might be
more efficient to donate money to Bookshare to buy books and pay
outsourcers rather than donate our time. If we want
certain
>>> books in the collection I wonder if it might
be faster and more efficient to just donate the books rather than put
so much of our own labor into them.
>>> As things change
devices to accomplish our goals become obsolete when they are
replaced
by better devices and certain jobs become obsolete when
better
>>> and mor efficient ways are found to do things.
I wonder if Bookshare volunteering is a job that is becoming
obsolete.
Since we have not even heard hints
>>> from Bookshare that
new volunteers are no longer welcome or that volunteers can give up
on
certain jobs I wonder if Bookshare volunteering is
becoming
>>> obsolete and the folks at Bookshare do not
even realize it yet. It does seem that the volunteers are becoming
less important to Bookshare and that Bookshare
>>> could
probably now do quite well without volunteers while still adding
books
at a rapid rate. I am not saying that is good or bad. I am not saying
that
>>> I want it to be like that or that I don't want it
to be like that. I am just wondering and thinking. What do you guys
think about what I have said?Â
>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
                      Â
                 "Can a
nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot." Vladimir
Lenin   Â
>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The
Militant:
>>> http://www.themilitant.com <http://www.themilitant.com/>
>>>
Pathfinder Press:
>>> http://www.pathfinderpress.com <http://www.pathfinderpress.com/>
>>>
Granma International:
>>> http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>> Â
           _
>>> block quote end
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