[bksvol-discuss] Re: Adult content, please read, please?

  • From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 12:28:05 -0400

    #
I think the whole argument is kind of silly. The best person to decide what is appropriate for a person is the person who is reading it. Honestly, if a six-year-old picks up a copy of Catcher in the Rye or War and Peace or a book on advanced physics then that six-year-old is not going to get very far. The six-year-old will decide that she or he cannot understand that and put it down. That is exactly what happens when something is too advanced for a person. They get bored and quit it. Now, just why does anyone think that they have to "protect" anyone from seeing something that will bore them. On the other hand, I can imagine a six-year-old who just might understand War and Peace. I have never met such a six-year-old and I tend to doubt that they exist, but I can imagine such a xix-year-old. That would be a very precocious six-year-old, indeed. In that case, War and peace is appropriate for that six-year-old, at least if she or he is interested in it. So what is the problem here? Having a children's category on Bookshare and having a teen or young adult category would seem to be sufficient. It lets a potential reader know what age range is the target audience for a book and that information can be used to make reading choices. Just in case a person's reading preferences are outside of those categories, though, no matter what their age might be, it is an arrogant exercise in controlling other people to prohibit them from choosing something else. Despite its still being highly subjective I do prefer the way the NLS handles the matter. At the end of the synopsis for a book they announce that a book contains violence or adult language and then leave it to the reader as to whether or not to read the book. Like I said, that is not a way to stop less than progressive parents, but the NLS can only do so much. So why can't Bookshare do the same thing? The announcement of adult language could be placed in the synopsis or, better, in a review. I say better because it is a matter of opinion and opinions belong in the reviews anyway. Anyone who reads a book can write a review and post it to the metadata page and anyone who is a potential reader can read that and take it into account when deciding what to read. No one is forced to lack access because of the personal opinion of some prig either.
On 4/4/2013 12:51 AM, Laura Shannon wrote:
When I think back to books that I read in Middle School, it seems that there is some feeling here they should be marked "adult content" for Bookshare. I would disagree. The Catcher in the Rye comes to mind as the best example, a book I read for English Class when I was thirteen. It contains some vulgar language and dark concepts, but I would not consider that it be marked "adult content" and completely restricted to minors.

There is a vast difference between what we would consider inappropriate for a 6 yr old and inappropriate for a 13 yr old. Ultimately, the decision would rest with the parents of the minor child. They know their child best, and what they would be able to handle in that regard.

It seems though, that a book that is to be kept separate, or in what used to be called a "back room" by a Bookstore, then Bookshare would have to adhere to those same standards and mark it adult content. I could be mistaken there though.

Roger's suggestion would seem to help everyone concerned. A simple short description of any questionable content would offer a guideline to be used by both those downloading and parents deciding what is suitable for their child. Just my opinion on the subject.


On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:56 PM, Lorri Romesberg <LorriAnn7@xxxxxxx <mailto:LorriAnn7@xxxxxxx>> wrote:

    I am new here so I don't have much knowledge of the system. My
    daughter is 11 and has just joined Bookshare though. While I
    monitor her TV and movies pretty closely, I am generally happy if
    she chooses to read any book since she has dyslexia. Generally she
    is not capable of reading books that may be appropriate for her
    age and it hasn't been much of a problem. With Bookshare she is
    able to check out books that may interest her and the program
    enables her to access books that would usually be over her age
    level. Thus leading to more problems.

    It is my understanding that she does not have access to books with
    "adult content" from her membership. While I am not too concerned
    about her learning more about adult topics I would hate, for
    example, for her to accidentally download The Girl with the Dragon
    Tattoo since obviously those graphic rape scenes would be
    traumatic to a prepubescent girl.

    The system is very subjective and obviously parents still need to
    monitor their children. It is my hope that the adult content
    designation will allow my daughter more independence while not
    traumatizing her though.

    The inclusion of one or two curse words is something we could
    quibble about but is not a big concern of mine. We discuss when
    these words are used and when they are not appropriate. It could
    be more of a problem for an 8 year old I imagine.

    Lorri

    On Apr 3, 2013, at 10:07 PM, Roger Loran Bailey
    <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>> wrote:

    > Okay, my first line got stripped away for this message again.
    Here it is with the first line restored:
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    >
    > Nimit, you have already solved your own problem. When you start
    reading a book that is distasteful to you you stop reading it and
    delete it. That is your choice and you have made that choice. When
    you ask other
    > people to censor books before you can find out that you have a
    distaste for them, though, you are asking people to make your
    choices for you and to take
    > your choice away from you. There are some words that I have a
    distaste for myself. Those words are usually racist or sexist
    terms or are other words that
    > display bigotry. Sometimes I actually cringe when I come across
    such words. However, if someone tried to prevent me from
    encountering them I would be extremely
    > resentful. If someone else decided for me what words I should be
    allowed to be exposed to without my having an input I would be
    more offended than I would
    > be if I encountered the words themselves. As long as books that
    are marked as containing adult content are prohibited from being
    accessed by anyone I even
    > oppose the adult designation at all and I would remove any adult
    designation on a book that I was proofreading. If the designation
    was there for informational
    > purposes only, though, then that would be a different matter
    because you could see the designation and simply decide for
    yourself whether to download it
    > or not. I am not sure that such a designation is necessary
    though. Notwithstanding miscategorization, if a book is listed in
    the children's category and
    > not in other categories then it should be safe to assume that
    the book is not written for adults and if a book is not in the
    childrens category then it
    > should be assumed that it is written with adults in mind. In any
    case, there is never a guarantee that you will like any book
    before you start reading
    > it and you should not expect that other people should take
    responsibility for deciding that you are going to like a book or
    not. You can read reviews.
    > You can listen to literary discussions. You can look to see what
    category a book is listed in. There are a number of ways to get a
    pretty good idea of
    > whether you will like a book before you start reading it, but
    you will never know for sure until you actually start reading it.
    Once you do start reading
    > and if you decide that it is not for you then you can just stop
    reading and you have already said that is what you do. Similarly,
    if I run into one of
    > those words that make me cringe I can stop reading myself and I
    have run into them on many occasions. Guess what? It has never
    harmed me. Sometimes I might
    > become a bit angry or disgusted or feel some other unpleasant
    emotion, but I have never been harmed. If you have come across
    words that you find distasteful
    > I expect that you might feel some kind of unpleasant emotion
    too, but I doubt very much that you have suffered any lasting
    harm. You just stop reading.
    > That should be enough. Furthermore, even if you are personally
    "protected" from certain words by other people who are depriving
    you of your right to make
    > your own decisions about what to read it so happens that other
    people your age or younger are deprived at the same time. So even
    if you maintain the right
    > to relinquish your own power of personal decision making then do
    you really have the right to ask that it be taken away from others
    of your age. I would
    > say that your best move is to just continue to make your own
    decisions about what to read and don't ask that your choices nor
    anyone else's choices be
    > censored.
    > On 4/3/2013 4:43 PM, Nimit Kaur wrote:
    > block quote
    > OK.  Sorry then.  I mean, then think about the words that you hear a
    > beap in the movies or  shows when it is being said.  I hope I am not
    > forced to write some here.  I won't and I hope I am not forced.  I
    > mean, I really don't want to and I know not to.  So, yeah, think
    about
    > the words that won't be writen in the kids' books or like the
    words or
    > actions, sometimes that are not in the movies rated excluding minors
    > such as PG or R or I can't think of more yet.  Sorry if I was wrong.
    > Thank you............
    >
    > On 4/3/13, Roger Loran Bailey
    > <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx <mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>>
    > wrote:
    > block quote
    > #
    > I cannot think of a single word I have ever read or heard in my
    whole
    > life that I would not want a minor to hear or read.
    > On 4/3/2013 4:24 PM, Nimit Kaur wrote:
    > block quote
    > Dear all Bookshare volunteers,
    >
    > I am emailing to sincerely request all scanners to label the book
    > adult content checkbox if it is, please?  Remember, the books
    you are
    > going to add to the collection will also pop up even if the minors
    > search in the collection when you don't label it if it is adult
    > content.  i have seen many books either in the collection and in my
    > account preferences, the books that contain adult content has been
    > blocked or whatever that setting does, but because many people
    are not
    > labeling it, I have mistakenly downloaded and deleted the book
    because
    > I can't read them yet.  I sincerely ask all scanners on behalf
    of all
    > the minors to please please please please please please please to
    > check the box that says "adult content" if it is when you submit the
    > book, please?  I mean, I have downloaded many books mistakenly that
    > are not properly stated adult content either for proofing or reading
    > for bookshare.  Please understand my situation.  I am sorry if I was
    > too much, but I am just trying to ask everyone scanners as sincerely
    > and politely as I can to please please label the adult content
    if your
    > book is and if you don't know what adult content means, then, it is
    > like when there are words in the book that you don't want any
    minor in
    > your life to hear.  Think of it as your own children, if you have or
    > if you don't, think of it as minors in your lives that you care
    about
    > and think about the things you really don't want them to read
    and the
    > words you want them to avoid.  You know?  I hope that makes sense.
    > Think of somethings that schools won't allow the students to do or
    > think of things that might be rated pg or r or whatever rating
    movies
    > have to state that minors should not watch it.  Kids my age hear
    > everything, but I am speaking for minors that should not read it or
    > even children.  I hope this makes sense.  Thank you for reading and
    > understanding.
    >
    > Sincerely,
    > Nimit, a bookshare student member and a future advicate for all
    > visually impaired students hopefully
    >
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    >
    > On 4/3/2013 9:39 PM, Roger Loran Bailey wrote:
    >> start reading a book that is distasteful to you you stop
    reading it and delete it. That is your choice and you have made
    that choice. When you ask other people to censor books before you
    can find out that you have a distaste for them, though, you are
    asking people to make your choices for you and to take your choice
    away from you. There are some words that I have a distaste for
    myself. Those words are usually racist or sexist terms or are
    other words that display bigotry. Sometimes I actually cringe when
    I come across such words. However, if someone tried to prevent me
    from encountering them I would be extremely resentful. If someone
    else decided for me what words I should be allowed to be exposed
    to without my having an input I would be more offended than I
    would be if I encountered the words themselves. As long as books
    that are marked as containing adult content are prohibited from
    being accessed by anyone I even oppose the adult designation at
    all and I would remove an
     y adult designation on a book that I was proofreading. If the
    designation was there for informational purposes only, though,
    then that would be a different matter because you could see the
    designation and simply decide for yourself whether to download it
    or not. I am not sure that such a designation is necessary though.
    Notwithstanding miscategorization, if a book is listed in the
    children's category and not in other categories then it should be
    safe to assume that the book is not written for adults and if a
    book is not in the childrens category then it should be assumed
    that it is written with adults in mind. In any case, there is
    never a guarantee that you will like any book before you start
    reading it and you should not expect that other people should take
    responsibility for deciding that you are going to like a book or
    not. You can read reviews. You can listen to literary discussions.
    You can look to see what category a book is listed in. There are a
    number of ways to ge
     t a pretty good idea of whether you will like a book before you
    start reading it, but you will never know for sure until you
    actually start reading it. Once you do start reading and if you
    decide that it is not for you then you can just stop reading and
    you have already said that is what you do. Similarly, if I run
    into one of those words that make me cringe I can stop reading
    myself and I have run into them on many occasions. Guess what? It
    has never harmed me. Sometimes I might become a bit angry or
    disgusted or feel some other unpleasant emotion, but I have never
    been harmed. If you have come across words that you find
    distasteful I expect that you might feel some kind of unpleasant
    emotion too, but I doubt very much that you have suffered any
    lasting harm. You just stop reading. That should be enough.
    Furthermore, even if you are personally "protected" from certain
    words by other people who are depriving you of your right to make
    your own decisions about what to read it
     so happens that other people your age or younger are deprived at
    the same time. So even if you maintain the right to relinquish
    your own power of personal decision making then do you really have
    the right to ask that it be taken away from others of your age. I
    would say that your best move is to just continue to make your own
    decisions about what to read and don't ask that your choices nor
    anyone else's choices be censored.
    >> On 4/3/2013 4:43 PM, Nimit Kaur wrote:
    >>> OK.  Sorry then.  I mean, then think about the words that you
    hear a
    >>> beap in the movies or  shows when it is being said.  I hope I
    am not
    >>> forced to write some here.  I won't and I hope I am not forced. I
    >>> mean, I really don't want to and I know not to.  So, yeah,
    think about
    >>> the words that won't be writen in the kids' books or like the
    words or
    >>> actions, sometimes that are not in the movies rated excluding
    minors
    >>> such as PG or R or I can't think of more yet.  Sorry if I was
    wrong.
    >>> Thank you............
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 4/3/13, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
    <mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
    >>>> #
    >>>> I cannot think of a single word I have ever read or heard in
    my whole
    >>>> life that I would not want a minor to hear or read.
    >>>> On 4/3/2013 4:24 PM, Nimit Kaur wrote:
    >>>>> Dear all Bookshare volunteers,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I am emailing to sincerely request all scanners to label the
    book
    >>>>> adult content checkbox if it is, please?  Remember, the
    books you are
    >>>>> going to add to the collection will also pop up even if the
    minors
    >>>>> search in the collection when you don't label it if it is adult
    >>>>> content.  i have seen many books either in the collection
    and in my
    >>>>> account preferences, the books that contain adult content
    has been
    >>>>> blocked or whatever that setting does, but because many
    people are not
    >>>>> labeling it, I have mistakenly downloaded and deleted the
    book because
    >>>>> I can't read them yet.  I sincerely ask all scanners on
    behalf of all
    >>>>> the minors to please please please please please please
    please to
    >>>>> check the box that says "adult content" if it is when you
    submit the
    >>>>> book, please?  I mean, I have downloaded many books
    mistakenly that
    >>>>> are not properly stated adult content either for proofing or
    reading
    >>>>> for bookshare.  Please understand my situation.  I am sorry
    if I was
    >>>>> too much, but I am just trying to ask everyone scanners as
    sincerely
    >>>>> and politely as I can to please please label the adult
    content if your
    >>>>> book is and if you don't know what adult content means,
    then, it is
    >>>>> like when there are words in the book that you don't want
    any minor in
    >>>>> your life to hear.  Think of it as your own children, if you
    have or
    >>>>> if you don't, think of it as minors in your lives that you
    care about
    >>>>> and think about the things you really don't want them to
    read and the
    >>>>> words you want them to avoid.  You know?  I hope that makes
    sense.
    >>>>> Think of somethings that schools won't allow the students to
    do or
    >>>>> think of things that might be rated pg or r or whatever
    rating movies
    >>>>> have to state that minors should not watch it.  Kids my age hear
    >>>>> everything, but I am speaking for minors that should not
    read it or
    >>>>> even children.  I hope this makes sense.  Thank you for
    reading and
    >>>>> understanding.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Sincerely,
    >>>>> Nimit, a bookshare student member and a future advicate for all
    >>>>> visually impaired students hopefully
    >>>>  To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
    >>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    >>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line.  To
    get a list of
    >>>> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the
    subject line.
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