Hi Liz, I agree with you completely on your sentiments about adult rating. Smile. it is a slippery slope, and as another illustration, I find Colter's books to be hateful, smile. Smile. but that is just me, and is my politically views, but don't like being called an Idiot by a book, smile. Shelley L. Rhodes M.A., VRT, CTVI and Guinevere, Golden lady Guide juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc. Graduate Alumni Association Board www.guidedogs.com More than Any other time, When i hold a beloved book in my hand, my limitations fall from me, my spirit is free. - Helen Keller ----- Original Message ----- From: "liz halperin" <lizzersagain@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:21 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Adult Content Filtering--long I am truly puzzled on some books. There are "romances" or "fiction and lit" books that have a very explicit sex scene or two, by my loose standards anyway--full of sexual detail. And not by euphemism or just the beginning or whatever, but truly explicit scenes. If it's a scene or two, do we just label that and put it in the general collection? But then if it's a whole book of explicit sex, a.k.a. erotica, with its purpose to be a sexual book, that one goes to Adult rating? (Letters to Playboy, no question there. A whole book specifically of lesbian erotica, no problem there. The Joys of Sex, no problem there.) I have no problem when the *point* is sex. (Well, some problem, still using the teen in the big bookstore scenario where she or he might earn a raised eyebrow but still be able to get the book (or look at the library copy but not dare to try to check it out) while the clerk or librarian hopes Mama or Papa or whomever is keeping watch.) So what about those other books? It's those slippery slope ones that concern me. Just add the phrase explicit whatever scenes in the short summary? Or the long summary? How many "bodice rippers" would have to be moved to Adult Content? Most of Tom Clancy's books would have to be moved over for explicit violence. Many war novels and thrillers too from body parts flying everywhere after bombs and gunshots. Many of Stephen King's, like "Cujo" and "It" would have to be moved over for violence. What about non-fiction books that detail genocide and torture (The Holocaust, Rwanda, etc.)? One discussion aspect is the philosophical side of how to notify readers what's in a book, which is one issue we have faced many times over the years on just these subjects of sex, violence, hate (written by Ku Klux Klan members, other Neo-Nazi or Pro-Aryan groups). But what if there's a non-fiction book describing historically what the KKK has done and including examples and their reasoning as part of the history? Is that book also put into Adult Content? And a high school or college student is doing a paper about it and needs the resources and references? We've bandied around various rating systems, phrases, where to put them, etc. We've talked about what constitutes "Adult Content." Again at the philosophical level. (I think of so many of the teen books that the majority of mainstream America would consider as fine but very Orthodox Jewish cousins or Muslims or some Judeo-Christian groups would not be allowed to read. Parental involvement is the key. But then the caveat of the book The Romance Reader I submitted and is available about such a girl who finds her own ways to access romance books.) Anyway philosophical is good. I get nervous now as we talk about the new schools access programs and limiting what teens can access. Some might call that censorship, others might not. I worry about us as individuals using our own personal moralities (which are as varietal as America is, thanks to our melting pot) to decide for others. This scares me. Some books or sub-collections are now *only* in accessible formats at Bookshare. I hope to be careful with those, that readers who want them can get them. I also trust that print-disabled teens can be just as enterprising and devious as the other kids, grin. But again, I worry about us becoming the equivalent of the Texas Textbook Repository group who ultimately determine which versions of history make it into our public schools, or Fahrenheit 451, or a censorship team. While I enjoy the discussion, I hope we stay with the large bookstore and large library concept and turn over the morals responsibility to individual parents and schools. It's their jobs, not ours. Long morning musings, sorry. But this is a topic I obviously feel passionately about. Liz, gulping first cuppa java for the day Liz Halperin Portland, OR lizzersagain@xxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ann Parsons Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 8:31 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: e: Re: Comment from the staff about Adult Content Filtering Hi all, Hmmm, I guess it would depend on the content of the book in the Gay and Lesbian genre as to whether it was adult or not. I think of adult content as being explicitly violent, explicitly sexual of whatever kind, and books where the dialogue is filled with four letter words which although kids know perfectly well, might be considered to be offensive. The idea of being gay or lesbian isn't necessarily adult, but might be confusing to some kids. Some parents might consider it to be adult. Ann P. -- Ann K. 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