In re: 14.2 mag NGC 709, maybe higher power, 250-300x, might have done it. The galaxy is midway between two equally bright (or equally dim) stars. I caught it at AZ City in October near the meridian in my 14.5" at 200x. The problem was i had misidentified 714 as 709, as Vickers doesn't go all the way to 714. I had done no research or preparation for this group ahead of time, it was just that 708 was on my list of thousands of objects to observe. -- See message header for info on list archives or unsubscribing, and please send personal replies to the author, not the list.