The problem with these various "dark skies" bills is that they are viewed by most as directly benefiting a very few. As a legislator, to support legislation like a "dark sky" bill, means that you have to have some insight into the negative long term effects of massive light pollution on the community. I suspect that amateur astronomers are viewed as a very tiny fringe element of the voting population, plus the fact that amateur astronomers probably don't even have a PAC which contributes large sums of money to political campaigns. I beleive that only where you can show significant economic loss to the community due to light pollution will the legislature come to consensus (like Tucson's city council many years ago), or if they feel that they, the legislators, directly benefit from it in some economic way. SB 1138 is a good example of "money talks"....after all, after passing SB 1218 for the good of the community, why would anyone even seriously contemplate the contents of SB 1138...for the benefit of the population?.....for the betterment of the city?.....because the voters really want flashing billboards? There's not any obvious way to make a lot of money directly by passing a dark sky bill (god only knows how that even happened), but there's certainly a lot of plausable ways to make money from a flashing billboard piece of legislation. Our form of government is thought by most to represent the majority of the voters, when in reality, it represents the majority of the dollars, and in most cases there is no correlation between the two. The majority of the voters probably don't even have a strong opinion, one way or another, on the subject, so the legislators probably feel that they are free to maximize their bank accounts in this case. When it comes to government actions, I'm generally thought of as a "skeptical Cynic" - which means that I'm almost never disappointed, and only very, very rarely delighted. SB 1138 certainly doesn't disappoint me in the least. again,.....my $0.02 /Bob -----Original Message----- Our disappointment with our state goverment is justified regarding SB1138. It was said that democracy is the worst form of government in the world, except for everyone's else's. So, if we believe this is true, make sure we use the system in our favor just as the politicians use it in theirs. How many of your friends outside of this mailing list have you asked to respond to this bill? In the end, it's the voters who decide. I have written a short letter and e-mailed it to friends outside this group to use with minor modification in an attempt to make it easier for all of us to oppose this bill. Let the people speak and be heard! Mike my 2 cents or < -----Original Message----- From: az-observing-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:az-observing-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Stanley A. Gorodenski Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 10:35 AM To: az-observing@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [AZ-Observing] Re: My two cents to idiot legislation Agreed, but on the other hand, another definition of politics is that it is the process whereby the rules of the game are established. If we don't like the rules, then we, as citizens, have to get actively involved. One problem with this, though, is that our politicians can simply ignore us, calling us fringe groups or some other term, as Bush did with the anti-war demonstrators. A saying I have heard is "The best government is the government that governs the least". I think a better definition, my own, is "The best government is the government that requires the least amount of input by the citizenry and still provides a life of freedom and opportunity". This probably will never be possible because the human situation is always changing. But, it seems to me that we have a system that is increasingly requiring more and more input and involvement by the citizens who, in the end on many issues (such as zoning ordinances, eminent domain, light pollution, etc. (including war)), get stomped on. We all have jobs (except me, retired) and other interests. If we have to increasingly spend more and more of our free time on other issues because our system is not working well, just how free are we? Where would we fall on the "Freedom Scale", if one could be constructed, at present and compared to the past? My 2 cents worth (which may actually be worth a mill or less). Stan "Bob Erdmann at ngcic.org" wrote: > Welcome to the wonderful world of politics!! If a bit of legislation > doesn't seem to pass the sanity test, then the first rule is to follow the > money. It works every time. Once you understand that the word "politics" > is a synonym for "corruption", you'll have much fewer frustrations in > understanding what goes on in the legislature, or in Congress, for that > matter. As a friend of mine once said: "A politician is just a nice name > for unconvicted felon." I personally haven't seen much to counter that > argument. -- See message header for info on list archives or unsubscribing, and please send personal replies to the author, not the list.