Comments first and then a question--- Jeff wrote:------------------------------------------------ Imagine a star party where an hour after sunset a ranger comes by and wants $15 from each observer to use the land. If things keep going the way they are headed, that will come to pass. ----------------------------------------------------------- Thats how it works in Cali(%$#@!!*)fornia , Jeff. Actually they had a drop box and you could just envelope and drop it in. Those sites had permanent washrooms, pay phones, and upkeep done. So in a way, you do get something back. That said, the roads into these places were often a joke and they were overcrowded and I'll honestly say that even set up just down the way from a ranger's house, I still felt very UNsecure in the CAl. parks, despite all the lights ;-( Tom, that was a mild political quip (and I liked it , too) and if placed on the Scovill scale, not even Poblano. OK, now for the question. I'll try and put this so I do not appear comepletely clueless... Are there now fee's at our most common observing places for the Phoenix area? I'm talking about Florence Jct, Vekol, Sentinel, that new place near BTA and some of the northern ones like Dugas, Cherry Rd, and Camp 613. Have never seen signs to this effect, or a drop box a.k.a. iron-ranger or whatever. What exactly is the status of all of these? I'll ask this on behalf of all the area free-lance observers who are not tied to any clubs. I left Az. City out of the question as I remember that as being Private Land. RC -- -- See message header for info on list archives or unsubscribing, and please send personal replies to the author, not the list.