[AZ-Observing] Re: Canon Astro Camera
- From: Tim Jones <tjmac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: az-observing@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:59:03 -0700
Hey Mike,
Feeling a bit feisty were we? Since you seem to have taken exception to my
simple observation, I thought I'd provide a bit more explanation for my
thinking on this.
Before everyone starts assuming that I'm against the Canon effort, I definitely
think the 60Da is a welcome product. Anything that promotes and supports
astronomy (amateur and otherwise) is always good news. My comment was simply
related to using "yesterday's tech" in an expensive (relatively) body when
newer tech and lower cost bodies are readily available.
While I agree that the voiding of the warranty on a Hap-modified camera will
bother some users, being able to get 2 for 1 and smile all the while is a big
thing to some folks; or saving $639 without buying the second camera and
putting that money aside as your "warranty" replacement fund. So far as
supported or acknowledged, I'm not exactly sure how those two terms matter
since you can get far better Canon support (Q&A) from various user groups /
forums than from Canon's canned response support team.
When the 20Da was released, there weren't a number of "other" options
available. When you've got the only game in town, it's really easy to become a
success, but even it's sales were only in the low 1,000's. However, what
signifies success to a company that creates devices that normally sell in the
millions of units? I don't suspect that low 1,000s is a positive milestone to
a company like Canon, otherwise, we wouldn't have seen the 20Da pulled.
My comment about the DIGIC 4+ is related to the fact that the DIGIC 5+ has
already been released in the professional grade EOS 1D X and the EOS 5D Mark
III and the PowerShot family S100 and SX40 IS/HS, so why go with the older chip
and circuit and the more expensive body (my suspicion is they had a lot of 60D
bodies)? Plus, DIGIC 5+ has a new automatic white balance algorithm, 75%
better noise reduction resulting in much cleaner images at very high speeds
(ISO 1600+), improved processing speed for faster downloads, and more
flexibility in processing the incoming photons.
Also, to your question about handling the higher H⍺ response I refer you to
Hap's presentation on modifying DSLR's:
http://www.rocklandastronomy.com/NEAIC/talks/Hap_Griffin.pdf
Combined with his other discussions, my suspicion is that the current level of
software in the cameras don't have a problem with the unfiltered levels.
BTW - referring to the Hap Griffin or Hutech modded cameras as "some garage
modified aftermarket science experiment" is a bit presumptuous on your part.
And, Hutech fully warrants their modified cameras.
As to Tom's comment about the "marketing genius" at Canon - it doesn't take a
marketing genius to get a product into production at an organization like
Canon. When you have the levels of success that they have, you can afford to
make a product for a niche and be satisfied with the press attention when
there's not a lot of other great things going on in the digital camera world-
call it "buying eyeballs". Even if the camera fails, the release has already
gotten Canon positive press in 100's if not 1,000's of venues that would not
normally even notice a Canon press release. I'm not implying that I expect
this is the reason for the release and I don't mean that this lessens the value
of the 60Da to buyers looking for that solution, just that Canon may not be too
worried about the camera's level of sales success. I've been involved with
this type of marketing with multi-billion dollar companies for almost 30 years,
so I'm not just guessing here.
However, if the company is serious about creating a very successful product and
if I was the Canon exec responsible for this, I would have chosen the lower
cost body and aimed at a much larger potential buyer segment. While the 100's
of "Adam Block's" of our world might jump on a $1,500 camera, the number of
amateurs looking for a $500 camera is much larger and growing.
I'll be very happy if the new 60Da becomes a huge success for Canon because it
might warrant them examining a lower cost body with a similar modification, but
I won't be surprised if it doesn't.
Tim
On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:26 AM, Mike Wiles wrote:
> I do seem to remember the same types of discussion occurring way back in the
> days of the 20Da and it turned out to b a highly rspected offering from
> Canon. Considering that the 60D is a pretty solid camera and that Canon does
> seem to put out a little effort for the astrophotographer - I expect that
> this too will be a successful product. A Hap Griffin modified DSLR isn't
> supported, warranted or acknowledged by Canon; nor does he have the ability
> to tweak the algorithms used by the (lowly?) DIGIC 4 processor to play nicer
> with the newly found H-Alpha sensitivity. What's that? We're discussing a
> product that doesn't exist yet? No one has seen it? Few, if any of us will
> actually get and use it whe it does become available? Everything that's been
> said is completely uninformed speculation seasoned with a light sprinkling
> barstool hyperbole? Of course!! It's an amateur astronomy message board!!
> That's how we roll up in here. :-).
>
> Only thing left is for Meade to announce their new flying car telescope
> system so we can froth and moan about it for two years before it appears and
> fails miserably. Meade's R&D budget is almost as much as the R&D budget of
> the Saguaro Astronomy Club. Problem is....they have fewer people interested
> in astronomy. Half of Cloudy Nights traffic is dedicated to this topic in
> some form or another. :-)
>
> The Canon? I won't buy one. But it's a realllly interesting product. I'll
> take the Canon product over some garage modified aftermarket science
> experiment any day. If they ever decided to make a cooled, mono CMOS
> camera....<sigh>..I'd be busy out in the desert putting it to good use while
> the smarter minds of the world discussed the obvious shortcomings of the CMOS
> sensor.
>
> Now that I've poked the bear, and gotten the Meade fanboys worked up in the
> process no doubt....who else can I get going today?
>
> Mike
>
>> ---- Tim Jones <tjmac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> With the Hap Griffen modded EOS units, all it takes is a custom white
>>> balance and you get the best of both. But, as I mentioned, the $639 you
>>> save with the modded T2i, you could afford to buy a second unmodded T2i for
>>> terrestrial photos.
>>
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