Yes, ...except maybe for the ambivalence toward protocol driven therapies. Advancements in the field should be valued, regardless of who ultimately employs them in practice. I would agree that it does appear a bit self-defeating when psychologists tout their advanced clinical skills in a fiscal era when "adequate" often is good enough for bean counters. I would add to the list: Program development & evaluation. Two areas greatly valued by administrators and which require a skill set almost exclusively held by psychologists in mental health. John Junginger Central Iowa From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Crisp, William Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:01 PM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor What sets psychologists apart and makes them valuable is their training and ability to conduct research and do assessments. Many psychologists seem to have ignored these assets in favor of developing things like manualized training which opens the door for other disciplines to do our work. In many VA settings research and assessment are discouraged as time consuming and less important than therapy, case management and documentation. Instead psychologists should develop protocols which emphasize both assessment and research as guides to treatment. This could greatly improve treatment over generic style manualized treatment and demonstrate the value of psychologists. William Crisp, Ph.D. Clinical Psychologist Substance Treatment Employment Program Central Texas Veteran's Health care System Temple, TX From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hagans, Chad L. Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:03 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor In my opinion just another failure by psychology to demonstrate empirically the value of what we offer over and above the value of what other mental health professionals offer, if indeed that value exists. I'd like to think it does because I'm a psychologist, but to say it does without empirical evidence would indicate bias more than anything else in my opinion. It's time to get to work and demonstrate the value. Who wants to do the work? Chad Hagans, Ph.D. Licensed Psychologist Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic 850-912-2000 ext. 2091 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Long, Stephen [Northport] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 3:30 PM To: 'members1@xxxxxxxxx' Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Edgardo, you sound the way I feel at times like these. It is very difficult to see so much of what one has worked for (developing skills, making what contributions you can, getting doctoral and postdoctoral training) over a professional career to have much of that devalued, denied, dismissed. om: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kirchberg, Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:49 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Thank you, Edgardo. I value your viewpoint on all the issues you raise! Tom Thomas M. Kirchberg, Ph.D., ABPP Chief Psychologist Mental Health Service VA Medical Center Memphis 901-523-8990 ext. 5320 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Padin, Edgardo (VHACLE) Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 9:55 PM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor By interesting, I'm sure you mean discouraging. After 20+ years in the VA, I continue to be astounded at how so many other professions continue to have sufficient advocacy to increase their grade levels commensurate with their responsibilities (case in point, Social Workers continue a juggernaut rise in grade with each new "position" created (most now seemingly needing GS-12 grades) while psychologist have an almost insurmountable task getting approvals at the GS-14 level. The data notwithstanding (that we have increased the number of GS-14 positions), the success of our Hybrid T38 and Professional Standards Boards have been underwhelming. This is not to start an old argument about our glass ceiling as psychologists in the VA; but it is to say that this new initiative to bring in and somehow "Qualify" Master's Level Counselors is a lobbyist win by Master's Level Counselors and Counseling Programs to establish their niche in the VA. And it will ultimately be to the detriment of Psychology. A system of lower entry pay entry "counselors" who can rise to the GS-13 by taking on greater responsibility means fewer Psychologists will be needed as they become overseers of a cadre counselors doing more of the supposed "drone" work of fully manualized and technicalized therapy. What a Brave New World. Anyone who thinks this is not the case should look at the private sector and see how lower level "Assistants" are replacing part of the work (and the pay) of their more educated colleagues. Let me clarify here that I have nothing against Master's Level Counselors, we have used them in Cleveland ever since I have been here. I don't know who is trying to kid whom whey they say that this is a "new position" of Mental Health Counselor, but we have had GS101-11 Readjustment Counselors in the VA for well over thee decades. They have limitations, but have worked out well in the areas we have used them. But what I do know is that not a single one has ever shown that they have some secret knowledge or facility or skill and foundational learning that is different from, greater than, or particularly more technical in nature that Psychologists. Usually, they have less. The only difference now is that some accreditation body (CACREP) can now be added as a profession lobbying body in the VA. Personally, I am not amused. So, maybe we as Psychologists are too educated, maybe manualized, evidence based protocols are making our "therapy" work too rote and straightforward for the amount of pay we are demanding, maybe what we do, with a good cookbook here and an evidence based therapy there, can be done by cheaper labor. I'm not sure; but I will say that with this cannon shot of promoting our Master's Level colleagues, we will find out. End of rant. From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fischer, Pamela (OKL) Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:52 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor It is interesting to me that the LPC who is a program manager can be a GS 13 - the grade level that many psychologists who manage programs and have years of experience cannot move beyond. Pamela C. Fischer, Ph.D. Director, Primary Care Mental Health #111AC Veterans Affairs Medical Center -OKC 921 N.E. 13th Street Oklahoma City, OK 73104 Phone: 405-456-3634 Fax: 405-456--5956 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shorter, George Wiley Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:54 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Colleagues, As many of you have been awaiting the Qualification Standards for Mental Health Counselors, we wanted to share these with you when we first received it. George Shorter, Ph.D. President, AVAPL "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country." -George Washington Date: 9/29/10 ID#: 2010-25 Policy Office: Recruitment & Placement Policy Service (059) Contact: Kent A. Wellman (Kent.Wellman2@xxxxxx) Policy Subject: VA Handbook 5005, PT II, Chapter 2, Appendix G43, Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor qualification standard. Handbook Reference: 5005 The attached new VA qualification standard for Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor, GS-101 has been signed. Since this is a new occupation to VA there will NOT be an initial one-time boarding. Additional implementation instructions and guidance will be forthcoming from the Veterans Health Administration (VHA). The new Appendix G43 will be added to the electronic version of VA Handbook 5005, Pt II, located at http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/HRLibrary/Dir-Policy.htm Questions regarding this Policy Update should be addressed to the Title 38 Staffing Policy Section, mailto:staffingpolicy059/vaco@xxxxxxx Status: Policy Process Step 4 Estimated date of release/implementation: 9/29/2010 This policy alert e-mail is part of a notification process that is intended to alert HR Specialists and other interested parties that a new policy or change to existing policy is required or being considered. If you have specific questions regarding this policy alert, please address them to the contact person named above. Policy update e-mails regarding this policy subject will be automatically generated according to the policy communication schedule/timeline. For more information about this policy alert or the policy communication schedule/timeline please go to http://vaww.va.gov/ohrm/ <http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/>