Chris Newby: On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:27:33 +1000, you are alleged to have= written: > >My 3rd grade English teacher said "shall is only used with I and= we". > >Here endeth the ancient history lesson. > > Now let's get this straight, shall we ? 1. I shall, you will, they will, we shall, you will, they will= when future tense is intended. "shall" is future for 1st person. 2. When imperative is involved: I will, you shall, they shall, we= will, you shall, they shall -- the reverse ! Oh, real handy ! Now have we got that straight ? Or is it wrong ? Who cares ?= It's just stupid to expect it works that way any more. If it ever did. = It's nonsense to work on the distinctions between "will" and "shall" and think= people know they mean imperatives rather than future tense. Particularly in a country where by far the majority of native= English speakers don't know the distinction -- and the large ESL population hasn't= got any chance of picking up the distinction in normal conversation. So the Government (and Australian Standards) wording conventions= are absolute bullshit if they are intended as effective communication of= intentions and nuances of meaning and try to force "shall" to become (wrongly) a= new universal imperative. Must works to indicate the imperative, and is not ambiguous in= this context. "May" and "should" work for me, and don't have the force of must,= therefore serve as useful contrasts to the "must" imperative. I'd= suggest they also work for most of the rest of the population except for the= lawgivers and drafters, most of whom find it difficult to end sentences and= paragraphs and can't end the sentence and start again because someone might= latch onto what is actually intended and get upset about it, thereby giving rise= to difficulties with the masses actually understanding something= without needing lawyers to get their little grubby fingers on the prose and turn= it into a huge income based on prolixity and confusion, notwithstanding the= lack of a need for the aforesaid intervention. And keep will and shall, if you must, for the future tense. Or something. -Peter G. Martin, Technical writer, Proxima Technology ************************************************** To post a message to austechwriter, send the message to austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe to austechwriter, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "subscribe" in the Subject field. To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field. To search the austechwriter archives, go to www.freelist.org/archives/austechwriter To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx **************************************************