Not sure I understand you Terry. "Yous" is not a word in Australian English, so the non-standardness can't be referring to the adding of an e at the end. "Non-standard" typically means not widely accepted in general writing or speech. As for ambiguity, what would be the cost to language learning and use if there was a word for every likely number of people in a group? It's the same with plural possession: I write "The students' assignments were unexpectedly good". You know by the placement of the apostrophe that I am talking about more than one student, but I've not told you how many students I am referring to. But is that a reason to stop using possessive apostrophes to distinguish singular from plural? I doubt it. So, likewise: if I say "Where are youse going?", it's clear that I am talking about more than one person. That's a step forward even though I haven't made it clear how many I was addressing (just as I didn't make it clear how many assignments I was referring to). I don't think one can have it both ways: insisting on the usefulness of singular-plural distinctions in possession but arguing that singular-plural distinctions in the second-person are not useful. Why are such distinctions useful in first person ("I" and "we") and third person ("he" and "they") but not in the second person? Here's to that mellifluous, poetic word "youse". May it live a long and hearty life. Cheers Geoffrey Marnell Principal Consultant Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd T: +61 3 9596 3456 F: +61 3 9596 3625 W: <http://www.abelard.com.au/> www.abelard.com.au Skype: geoffrey.marnell _____ From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Terry Dowling Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:20 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: Not all change is loss The Macquarie now lists "youse". It calls its use "non-standard" Surely, the 'non-standard' simply refers to the use of the 'e' after the 's'. :-) I'm struggling to think of a similar example. removing the ambiguity in statements like "Where are you going?" when uttered in front of a group of people. I still see ambiguity here. How many of the crowd are now being addressed? You only know that it's more than one. The only time the ambiguity is removed is if it's a crowd of two. Not much of an advantage to compensate for the 'ugliness'. Cheers, Terry