atw: Re: Usage and dictionaries - was "Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011"

  • From: "Lewington, Warren" <Warren.Lewington@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "'austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:05:48 +1000

Two words that have come up this morning and absent in the Mac dictionary: 
"spiraloid" (seems to be a weasel word anyway) and "munting" (admittedly 
sourced from the kiwis - like they have an intelligible form of English in the 
first place)...

Warren; who is looking forward to seeing the latest fashion in choke-collared 
shirts the All-Blacks will be wearing on the RUWC boardwalk...

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell
Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2011 10:01
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

Me thinks, dear Bruce, that you have a possibly misplaced respect for 
dictionaries.

For a start dictionaries do not always get it right. The kerfuffle over the 
blatant prescriptivism of the New Heritage Dictionary (first published as an 
attack on the descriptivism of Webster's) shows that you need to choose your 
dictionaries carefully. And even then a good dictionary can either err or lag 
too far behind common usage. Take the Macquarie, for instance (the bible of 
Australian English). It still insists (even in this year's online update) that 
the primary meaning of "disinterested" is "objective, impartial". I have 
surveyed just over 2,000 of my students (who are of a wide spread of ages). 96% 
tell me that they equate "disinterested" with "uninterested". To follow the 
dictionary definition in using this term is likely to mislead many, many 
readers.

Anyway, why wait for a  term to get into a dictionary before legitimising its 
use? Remember that dictionaries are fairly recent inventions. The first modern 
English dictionary didn't appear until the middle of the 18th century. Was 
every word used before then used illegitimately?

And don't we write with our audience's ease-of-understanding in mind? If the 
particular audience I am writing for uses jargon, I am obliged to use that 
jargon. (If I don't, my writing will be seen as paternalistic or simply 
time-wasting). But not all jargon makes it into every dictionary. You won't 
find "charmed quark" in the Macquarie, but the term has widespread use.
Likewise, you won't find "hanging hyphen" in the Macquarie, or "hairline 
space", or "modal dialog box", or ... I could bore you to tears with examples 
of words that have legitimate custom but are not in mainstream dictionaries.

A word makes it into a dictionary when its usage achieves a certain critical 
mass. Thus many people use a new term, and use it to impart meaning to their 
particular audiences, well before the term makes it into a dictionary. It seems 
unduly punitive to limit the legitimacy of a term's use to when it appears in a 
dictionary if that term is doing good work in imparting meaning (and saving 
writers having to spell out the concept in four or five times as many words).

Cheers


Geoffrey Marnell
Principal Consultant
Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
T: +61 3 9596 3456
F: +61 3 9596 3625
M: 0419 574 668
W: www.abelard.com.au
Skype: geoffrey.marnell
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of bja
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:22 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

Hmmm, can't see where you get that idea from Geoff. I've never given a rats 
about 'new' words before as long as there are enough citations to justify it.
Having never seen, heard or known about bork prior to its overuse on this list, 
I simply raised the issue of "what tha".
And yes, I'm still a technical writer using plain English (where possible) to 
convert technical information into non-technical reading material and as such, 
would NEVER be on the 'bleeding edge' of language experimentation.
If bork gets enough citations to gain entry to a dictionary (I'm ass-u-ming it 
hasn't already) then who knows, I may even get to use it in a user manual one 
day.
Until then, bork off and stop taking things so seriously! :) Cheers, Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell
Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2011 8:05 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

It sounds very much, Bruce, as if you don't like new words entering the 
language.

Are you still working as a technical writer? Do you write with a contemporary 
audience in mind? Or are you still using the language of Geoffrey Chaucer?

Cheers


Geoffrey Marnell
Principal Consultant
Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
T: +61 3 9596 3456
F: +61 3 9596 3625
M: 0419 574 668
W: www.abelard.com.au
Skype: geoffrey.marnell
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of bja
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:14 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

Lol... Don't worry, I checked as many references as I could before I posted and 
I've worked in IT for 15 years and never heard the term before you popularists. 
:)

Bork indeed!

:)

Cheers,
Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Parker
Sent: Monday, 8 August 2011 8:35 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

And if you head for Wiktionary ( mispelled first up) you'll even more bizarre 
usages!
B
On 08/08/2011, at 6:27 PM, Lana Brindley wrote:

> Heh, thanks for that Bill. Wasn't aware of that version of the word!
> Totally different etymology, even :)
>
> L
>
> On 8 August 2011 20:26, Bill Parker <renew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> It might be tech word Lana but according to Wikitionary:
>>
>> From Robert Bork, rejected US Supreme Court nominee
>>
>> [edit] Verb
>>
>> Bork (third-person singular simple present Borks, present participle
Borking, simple past and past participle Borked)
>>
>>        * (US, politics) To defeat a judicial nomination through a
concerted attack on the nominee's character, background and philosophy.
[quotations ▼]
>>        * (US, politics) To fire an honest government official in an
attempt to prevent embarrassment to and exposure of a dishonest government 
officeholder who has conspired to commit high crimes (term first used by the 
National Lampoon Radio Hour in to describe the 1973 firing of Watergate Special 
Prosecutor Archibald Cox by Solicitor General Robert Bork in the "Saturday 
Night Massacre" orchestrated by Bork and President Richard Nixon).
>>
>> So if the doyens of the IT world use it as their own,  good luck to them.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On 08/08/2011, at 6:11 PM, Lana Brindley wrote:
>>
>>> It's a very common word in tech circles. It comes from a common typo
>>> of the word "broken" ("borken"), and is sometimes represented with a
>>> 0
>>> (zero) instead of an o. Similar 'spurious' origins as w00t, pr0n,
>>> fail, and other internet niceties.
>>>
>>> When we refer to websites or programs being 'borked' it means that
>>> it is not working as expected, usually in fairly big and obvious
>>> ways (smaller or more subtle problems are usually called 'bugs' and
>>> the program is described as 'buggy'). It is often used to describe
>>> the appearance of the site or program, for this reason.
>>>
>>> But yes, I admit we all took that idea and well and truly ran with
>>> it, citing "borkage", "borkiness", and "borkedness" in this email
>>> thread
>>> ;)
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>> On 8 August 2011 19:54, Neil Maloney <maloneyn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Advert to:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-bork
>>>>
>>>> Neil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/08/2011 7:50 PM, bja wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Are you lot borking mad? What’s with the sudden overuse of this
strange word
>>>> (yes I looked it us and am aware of its spuious origins).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When did it first pop up on this list?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Egad,! For bork sake, must we promote every weird ‘trendy’ little
word?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <sigh>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey
Marnell
>>>> Sent: Monday, 8 August 2011 10:01 AM
>>>> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But Neil, is that borking? Or just plain inconsistent tabular lay-out?
In
>>>> other words, is it Dreamweaver or the coder?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geoffrey Marnell
>>>>
>>>> Principal Consultant
>>>>
>>>> Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
>>>>
>>>> T: +61 3 9596 3456
>>>>
>>>> F: +61 3 9596 3625
>>>>
>>>> M: 0419 574 668
>>>>
>>>> W: www.abelard.com.au
>>>>
>>>> Skype: geoffrey.marnell
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil
>>>> Maloney
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:57 AM
>>>> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at the main page ... same bars of colour but they fit
>>>> in
better
>>>> for how that page is set up.
>>>>
>>>> Neil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/08/2011 9:45 AM, Lana Brindley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Geoffrey,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm ... maybe it's meant to be like that? I thought those extra
>>>> bars
>>>>
>>>> of colour (marked in new attachment) weren't meant to be there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 August 2011 09:34, Geoffrey Marnell <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Lana, but it looks exactly the same in IE 8. Where is the
borkiness?
>>>>
>>>> It's not the prettiest design, but where is the mis-rendering? Or
>>>> is it
>>>>
>>>> borked is a way other than poorly rendered HTML?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geoffrey Marnell
>>>>
>>>> Principal Consultant
>>>>
>>>> Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
>>>>
>>>> T: +61 3 9596 3456
>>>>
>>>> F: +61 3 9596 3625
>>>>
>>>> M: 0419 574 668
>>>>
>>>> W: www.abelard.com.au
>>>>
>>>> Skype: geoffrey.marnell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lana
>>>> Brindley
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:22 AM
>>>>
>>>> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Geoffrey,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what Jean is seeing, of course, but I can see some
>>>>
>>>> borkedness (Google Chrome 13.0.782.107 on Fedora 15). Picture
>>>>
>>>> attached.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 August 2011 08:56, Geoffrey Marnell <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I could find no borking on the first web site. Can you point out
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> problem (and tell us how it's related to Dreamweaver rather than,
>>>> say,
to
>>>>
>>>> Spry). We do bucket loads of Dreamweaver work here and would be
>>>> keen to
know
>>>>
>>>> what to avoid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geoffrey Marnell
>>>>
>>>> Principal Consultant
>>>>
>>>> Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
>>>>
>>>> T: +61 3 9596 3456
>>>>
>>>> F: +61 3 9596 3625
>>>>
>>>> M: 0419 574 668
>>>>
>>>> W: www.abelard.com.au
>>>>
>>>> Skype: geoffrey.marnell
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lana Brindley
>>> writer:speaker:blogger
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one
>>> that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.
>>> --George Orwell
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>> http://lanabrindley.com
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>> Please avoid sending me Word, Powerpoint or Windows Media attachments.
>>> ------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
> --
> Lana Brindley
> writer:speaker:blogger
> ------------------------------------------------
> Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one
> that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.
> --George Orwell
> -----------------------------------------------
> http://lanabrindley.com
> -----------------------------------------------
> Please avoid sending me Word, Powerpoint or Windows Media attachments.
> ------------------------------------------------
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