atw: Re: Mouses??
- From: Peter G Martin <peter.martin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "I-Ashley, Bruce" <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:16:22 +1000
I-Ashley, Bruce: On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:53:57 +1000, you wrote:
> (Sorry list ... this is my last comment on the issue)
>
> Hi Howard,
>
> You said: "But if you can provide evidence that 'mouses' is
> not only acceptable but recognized as the standard form, I'll
> retreat gracefully."
>
> I shouldn't have to tell you how to suck eggs but 'Mouses' is
> recognized as the ONLY form in both the Macquarie and the
> Oxford. This was pointed out in two previous emails in the
> thread. If this word is too uncomfortable, then avoid its use.
> Also, if you have more definitive works than these two
> dictionaries, I'd like to know what they are because they are
> certainly unknown to me.
>
Ah Bruce. A chance for the last word ! :-)
There are more definitive works than these two dictionaries...
-- they are the next editions of each.. or the ones after that.
Because my Macquarie didn't have the authoritative reference you
refer to, am I not entitled to assume you are merely referring
to a passing fancy in the current editions of these reference
works?
And thus was always the case. (Dr Johnson had "olde" but not
"old"..!)
Bruce, there is NO ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY on this issue, and I
refuse to be recruited in absentia to your ranks of crusading
OED-Macquarie-hidebound technical writers as though someone
else's religion is compulsory for me, and "standardization" is a
reality. (It is not. )
Talk to some of the people who compose these dictionaries, for
god's sake, and they'll tell you how dynamic a language English
is.. And they'll tell you that frequently, by the time they
have a new edition out, meanings of words have already changed
and moved on.
A reminder of what Dr Johnson said about his own important work
(note some of the spelling) :
"I shall therefore, since the rules of stile, like those of law,
arise from precedents often repeated, collect the testimonies of
both sides, and endeavour to discover and promulgate the decrees
of custom, who has so long possessed whether by right or by
usurpation, the sovereignty of words."
> Remember that we are technical writers. Entrepreneurial
> language should come from journalists, jingo writers or
> advertising copy writers, not us. We should be defending the
> language to allow standardization, consistency and a clear
> understanding of the message we are trying to get across.
Clear understanding is the aim. Standardization is a
chimera.... and neither a guaranteed nor a safe way to achieve
clear understanding. "Stile" and "custom" both make up the
language... "Consistency" of the kind you appear to refer to,
if it is based on fixed dictionary terms, is neither possible nor
likely over time. The dictionary is a handy guidance in
trying to help maintain consistency for a while. But a
complete dictionary (check the Complete Oxford) is a record of
how impossible it is to maintain standardization and full
consistency, with its lists of dates of changed meanings
stretching over centuries.
Perhaps discussions like the "mouses" discussion here hold more authority
than some frozen version of the language which is no longer
"standard" as soon as it's published. They do for me.
And there are few places where the limitations of dictionaries
are more evident than in areas of rapid development and change
such as computers and technology.
"Googling" may have just made it into the shortlist. "VKB" probably
hasn't just yet ... and by the time it makes it into the dictionary it
might be called something else... after all, it's about 6 months old.
We are working in a grey world, not one of black and white.
And by the way, the Old English version of the plural of mouse
used to be something like "mousiz" in pronunciation .... and
its change to "mice" (mys) is cited as a case of what is known
as "i-mutation". And the term "mouse" has been known to have
been used for other similarly mice-like devices since 1750, so were
they "mice" or "mouses" ? And should we always revert to the earliest
authority and spell "mice" as "mys" ?
We are working in a world of change. We need to try to get used to it.
-Peter M
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