Just a small point.
I have the view that a significant area of success for a customer would be
to obtain your product for free with a lifetime guarantee of support.
"Customer Success Except For a Few Key Areas"?
There are still some aspects of commerce that resemble warfare.
Few consumers have doubts about that, and pretending otherwise looks pretty
naive on the one hand, and propaganda-ish on the other.
"We're just here to help..."
"Ok, help me by selling your stuff to me at half price."
-Peter M
On 9 October 2017 at 08:47, Howard Silcock <howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I didn't intend to say any more about this, but feel I should clear up any
possible misunderstandings about what I said. I was questioning only the
job titles, not the jobs themselves. The misgivings I expressed to Rachael
in my first post were only about the terminology - the role they were
advertising could be fine. I'm all in favour of making customers a
priority, so have no quarrel with that, but I spend most of my days working
with words and think it's important to use them well, not pick ones that
evoke importance and some positive emotions but leave it unclear what's
being described.
I didn't want to discourage anyone from applying for that position, if it
seemed right for them.
Howard
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 at 7:53 pm, Carl Sarelius <carl.sarelius@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Nice one Howard. I agree with you wholeheartedly – mind you I still think
there’s a bit of Utopia HR in there somewhere 😊 .
Cheers
Carl
*From:* austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@
freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *Howard Silcock
*Sent:* Sunday, 8 October 2017 5:04 PM
*To:* Austechwriter <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* atw: Re: Junior Technical Writer / Customer Success Advocate
role in Melbourne
Hi Suzy and others
I'm pleased to see that my question generated some dialogue.
My initial reaction to that phrase was simply bafflement, followed by a
suspicion that someone was wanting to make a role seem more glamorous than
it actually was.
I was also puzzled by the actual words used. An 'advocate' is someone who
pleads for or on behalf of a person or group, or supports a cause by
argument (not someone who helps someone to do something). And the word
'success' is just way over the top (will they help me get a promotion
or get my novel published?) - though not quite so ridiculous as
'happiness' (makes me wonder if they also purvey drugs).
In answer to Suzy's argument, if helpdesks had a bad reputation because
they didn't do what they were supposed to -
namely,
help people - then I can't see how anyone would think changing the name
to remove the word 'help' would be an improvement - particularly if you
replace it with 'happiness'. I also find it hard to believe that someone's
job title might be more important than how they
actually
work
with you
when you're deciding whether you feel supported.
My advice would be (as if anyone wanted my advice!): If you're going to
change a role's name, change it to something less vague, not more vague -
and make sure you know what the words you use actually mean.
Regards
Howard
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 at 9:15 am, Suzy Davis <suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi there
I’m not finding this one so strange; and I think re-framing how roles are
referred to in line with the vision the business wants that role to achieve
– in this case, someone who thinks of the customer first and advocates for
their customer success or happiness – is useful for the company to keep
that person on track with the perspective you want them to keep in taking
on the role of writing, what I’m assuming is, customer-facing documentation.
I’ve seen this on the many entrepreneurial coaching business helpdesk
response signatures for years – it’s no longer “James B, Helpdesk
Representative”, but it’s more often “Sally T, Customer Happiness Expert”
As a customer, with a problem, I feel I’m been looked after more by
“Sally T” than “James B” – I feel that Sally T is passionate about her job
and looking to solve my problem, whereas James B feels more like a clock
watcher to me who doesn’t really care.
For years it hasn’t been uncommon for helpdesk roles to be re-defined –
in the 80s they were Helpdesk representative, and then they commonly became
“Customer Service Representative” – to try and combat the bad reputation of
helpdesks around the world… not helping people. I think this is another
evolution, and in the meantime, helpdesk roles have expanded to include
technical writers.
I can see the journey.
The company is defining it up front that what they want is someone who
cares about the customer’s happiness in their experience with the company,
subtext, “People who hate customers need not apply”.
I think with Rachael posting the “Customer Success Advocate” role it’s a
sign that, albeit in a startup, that you are going to see more of these
roles coming up in the future.
Kind regards Suzy
*Suzy Davis *
*Microsoft Word Templates, Apps for Microsoft Office*
*& Documentation Projects *
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
* <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>*
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*www.**appsforoffice**.com* <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
(Melbourne) Australia
*Mobile* *+61 433 489 989*
*Email* *suzy.davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx* <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*From:* *austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx* [mailto:
*austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx*] *On Behalf Of *Rafael Manory
*Sent:* Sunday, 8 October 2017 12:35 AM
*To:* *austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx*
*Subject:* atw: Re: Junior Technical Writer / Customer Success Advocate
role in Melbourne <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
With all due respect, Mr. Ryan, your attempts to justify the use of this
term—with which I am sure you are by now very familiar---only make it sound
more bombastic than it is already. You can call a cleaner “sanitation
worker” if you believe that it makes the person feel better, but the job
still involves the same cleaning. I must admit that the first time I came
across “Customer Success Advocate” was in this position description. And
with all due respect, these three words combined still do not make any
sense in my book. I am sure you use it comfortably, but to this community
it does not sound right, and I strongly agree with Howard. Why does
customer success require an advocate? I agree that acquiring new customers
and keeping them is an important role, but this is supposed to be the role
of each employee in the company. I do not see myself calling a company and
asking to speak with their customer success advocate. It sounds ridiculous
to me, and I am sure to others on this list as well…
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Rafael <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Ryan
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>*
*Sent:* Saturday, October 7, 2017 12:29 PM
*To:* *austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx* <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*Subject: atw: Re: Junior Technical Writer / Customer Success Advocate
role in Melbourne <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>*
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Fair points Howard. It feels a little strange the first time, doesn't it?
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Watching the term "Customer Success" rise to become a well-defined and
comfortably used term has been interesting. But it's an overall positive
thing that it split away from "customer support" in some clear ways. It
starts to feel comfortable if you think of the role as one to ensure that
the customer experience is positive along the whole user journey.
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
It becomes an incredibly important role for scaling companies. Especially
SaaS companies where the cost of acquiring new customers versus the
lifetime value of keeping them is a live-or-die obsession.
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Even if you shy away from the business side of things, it's kind of
awesome to think of a role like this not only existing with the genuine
focus of ensuring customers are learning and getting the most out of the
product, but that this role gains a lot of power to fight for the user. I'd
argue this is the most important user advocate role outside of the original
UX team. Even more-so than customer support (high velocity exposure to
users, but narrow band of interaction) or technical writers (who are still
hidden away from users in most companies).
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*David Ryan · Managing Director <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>*
*Corilla · @corilla <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>*
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Howard Silcock <
*howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx*> wrote: <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Hm, I wonder if your HR person has seen the send-up of HR people in the
Utopia TV series. The term 'Customer Success Advocate' looks like it came
from that show, only if I saw it on the show I might think it a bit over
the top. I couldn't imagine telling someone that was my job title and
keeping a straight face! <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Sorry, people on this list tend to look at word usage more critically
than most! <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Howard <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 at 6:50 pm, Rachael Mullins <
*rachaelamullins@xxxxxxxxx*> wrote: <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Hey Howard, good questions. <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
In an ideal world these would be two distinct roles, but one of the
challenges of working in a startup environment is more often than not, each
of us needs to wear more than one hat. That's not for everyone, but for the
right person it can offer an opportunity for a diverse workload and a
broadening of their skill set. <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Customer Success Advocate is our HR person's preferred term for what you
may know as a customer support representative--someone in direct contact
with clients who helps them get the best out of our products and
troubleshoots when things go wrong. In my mind the two roles are
fundamentally about the same thing: helping our clients get stuff done,
whether that's by supporting them over the phone, escalating their issue to
a development team, or writing a help topic. So, different but overlapping
skill sets. <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Hope that helps! <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Rachael <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*Rachael Mullins <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>*
*about.me/rachaelmullins* <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Howard Silcock <
*howard.silcock@xxxxxxxxx*> wrote: <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Just out of interest, can you tell us what a Customer Success Advocate
actually is? Would she or he advocate on behalf of the company's customers?
Who would the advocacy be directed at? And why would you expect that work
to suit someone interested in technical writing?
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
I'm intrigued. <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Regards <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Howard <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 at 3:37 pm, Rachael Mullins <
*rachaelamullins@xxxxxxxxx*> wrote: <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Hi austechies, <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
We have a role going at Seamless for a Junior Technical Writer / Customer
Success Advocate, starting ASAP. Melbourne CBD location, great team, and in
a company that's helping make a difference for cities and governments
around the world. Hit me up with any questions.
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/414919002/*
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
More about Seamless: *http://www.seamlesscms.com/Careers*
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Thanks, <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
Rachael <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
*Rachael Mullins <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>*
*about.me/rachaelmullins* <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
?? <http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
<http://www.appsforoffice.com/>
