atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

  • From: "Robert Levy" <robert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 11:44:59 +1000

I just downloaded an excerpt (from here:
http://www.cambridge.org/aus/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521795357&ss=e
xc )

In skimming around it, I learned the source of the prohibition against
ending a sentence with a preposition.

And in fact, it wasn't a prohibition at all:

---
The Preposition is often separated from the Relative which it governs,
and joined to the verb at the end of the Sentence . . . as, ‘Horace is an
author, whom I am much delighted with’ . . . This is an Idiom which
our language is strongly inclined to; it prevails in common conversation,
and suits very well with the familiar style of writing; but the
placing of the Preposition before the Relative is more graceful, as well
as more perspicuous; and agrees much better with the solemn and
elevated style.
---

I'm buying the book (somewhere cheap, I hope).

Rwl

--
http://savethesemicolon.com
--

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell
Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2011 9:02 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

Hi Christine

You make a very good observation. But language-change has many, many causes.
The best I can do is to direct interested readers to Jean Aitchison's book
"Language Change: Progress or Decay?" At the time of writing the book,
Aitchison was Professor of Language and Communication at Oxford University.
It's a fabulous rich book, and should be made compulsory reading for all
pedants ;-). Yes, some change is diminution; some is not. Some is due to
cultural shifts; most is not.

Aitchison gave the 1996 Reith Lectures and got death threats for her
troubles. All she was pointing out was the inevitability of language change.

To the sticklers who think that  all change is diminution: English is over
1,500 years old and change has been constant throughout that time.  So isn't
it a little spooky that we are still able to understand each other after
1,500 years of linguistic entropy?  Unless one of the premises is wrong.

Cheers


Geoffrey Marnell
Principal Consultant
Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
T: +61 3 9596 3456
F: +61 3 9596 3625
M: 0419 574 668
W: www.abelard.com.au
Skype: geoffrey.marnell

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:44 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

I don't normally buy into these "discussions", but I had a thought about
this one.

Change in the language doesn't happen in a cultural vacuum. It happens as a
result of the change in the culture.  I have never heard the word "bork"
before, but it seems that techos have seen the need to invent a word that
means software that is f*&^ed, without using that word. What they have done
is normalise the concept that software can be a lot worse than just buggy,
often enough to need a word to describe it that is not classed as a swear
word.

The same can be said for the use of a very similar word, bonk, that entered
the language a few years back.  It also replaced the word f%^&, meaning sex
without a relationship of any kind between the consenting parties and
normalised the concept in the culture.  That was also a cultural shift that
many found offensive.

So I wonder if resistance to changes in the language may be based on a
resistance to a change in the culture in which it is embedded.

This invention of new words is at least clear.  Cultural changes reflected
in the emotional value of a word that is not phased out can be much more
insidious. I remember the exact moment when I realised that the word
"idealist" had become a term of abuse - similar to people remembering the
exact moment when someone famous has died. I remember the room, the job I
was on, and the person who threw at me that abuse "you're just an idealist".
This realisation was actually the moment at which I realised my personal
culture was dead.  Other words have followed idealist into the grave, in my
awareness, such as loyalty, which has also taken on a different emotional
value which is no longer flattering.

This is your territory Geoff - how much of changes to language are changes
to culture?

Christine


-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell
Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2011 8:05 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

It sounds very much, Bruce, as if you don't like new words entering the
language.

Are you still working as a technical writer? Do you write with a
contemporary audience in mind? Or are you still using the language of
Geoffrey Chaucer?

Cheers


Geoffrey Marnell
Principal Consultant
Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
T: +61 3 9596 3456
F: +61 3 9596 3625
M: 0419 574 668
W: www.abelard.com.au
Skype: geoffrey.marnell
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of bja
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:14 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

Lol... Don't worry, I checked as many references as I could before I posted
and I've worked in IT for 15 years and never heard the term before you
popularists. :)

Bork indeed!

:)

Cheers,
Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Parker
Sent: Monday, 8 August 2011 8:35 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011

And if you head for Wiktionary ( mispelled first up) you'll even more
bizarre usages!
B
On 08/08/2011, at 6:27 PM, Lana Brindley wrote:

> Heh, thanks for that Bill. Wasn't aware of that version of the word!
> Totally different etymology, even :)
>
> L
>
> On 8 August 2011 20:26, Bill Parker <renew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> It might be tech word Lana but according to Wikitionary:
>>
>> From Robert Bork, rejected US Supreme Court nominee
>>
>> [edit] Verb
>>
>> Bork (third-person singular simple present Borks, present participle
Borking, simple past and past participle Borked)
>>
>>        * (US, politics) To defeat a judicial nomination through a
concerted attack on the nominee's character, background and philosophy.
[quotations ▼]
>>        * (US, politics) To fire an honest government official in an
attempt to prevent embarrassment to and exposure of a dishonest government
officeholder who has conspired to commit high crimes (term first used by the
National Lampoon Radio Hour in to describe the 1973 firing of Watergate
Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox by Solicitor General Robert Bork in the
"Saturday Night Massacre" orchestrated by Bork and President Richard Nixon).
>>
>> So if the doyens of the IT world use it as their own,  good luck to them.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On 08/08/2011, at 6:11 PM, Lana Brindley wrote:
>>
>>> It's a very common word in tech circles. It comes from a common typo
>>> of the word "broken" ("borken"), and is sometimes represented with a
>>> 0
>>> (zero) instead of an o. Similar 'spurious' origins as w00t, pr0n,
>>> fail, and other internet niceties.
>>>
>>> When we refer to websites or programs being 'borked' it means that
>>> it is not working as expected, usually in fairly big and obvious
>>> ways (smaller or more subtle problems are usually called 'bugs' and
>>> the program is described as 'buggy'). It is often used to describe
>>> the appearance of the site or program, for this reason.
>>>
>>> But yes, I admit we all took that idea and well and truly ran with
>>> it, citing "borkage", "borkiness", and "borkedness" in this email
>>> thread
>>> ;)
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>> On 8 August 2011 19:54, Neil Maloney <maloneyn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Advert to:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-bork
>>>>
>>>> Neil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/08/2011 7:50 PM, bja wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Are you lot borking mad? What’s with the sudden overuse of this
strange word
>>>> (yes I looked it us and am aware of its spuious origins).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When did it first pop up on this list?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Egad,! For bork sake, must we promote every weird ‘trendy’ little
word?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <sigh>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey
Marnell
>>>> Sent: Monday, 8 August 2011 10:01 AM
>>>> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But Neil, is that borking? Or just plain inconsistent tabular lay-out?
In
>>>> other words, is it Dreamweaver or the coder?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geoffrey Marnell
>>>>
>>>> Principal Consultant
>>>>
>>>> Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
>>>>
>>>> T: +61 3 9596 3456
>>>>
>>>> F: +61 3 9596 3625
>>>>
>>>> M: 0419 574 668
>>>>
>>>> W: www.abelard.com.au
>>>>
>>>> Skype: geoffrey.marnell
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil
>>>> Maloney
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:57 AM
>>>> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at the main page ... same bars of colour but they fit
>>>> in
better
>>>> for how that page is set up.
>>>>
>>>> Neil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/08/2011 9:45 AM, Lana Brindley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Geoffrey,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm ... maybe it's meant to be like that? I thought those extra
>>>> bars
>>>>
>>>> of colour (marked in new attachment) weren't meant to be there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 August 2011 09:34, Geoffrey Marnell <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Lana, but it looks exactly the same in IE 8. Where is the
borkiness?
>>>>
>>>> It's not the prettiest design, but where is the mis-rendering? Or
>>>> is it
>>>>
>>>> borked is a way other than poorly rendered HTML?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geoffrey Marnell
>>>>
>>>> Principal Consultant
>>>>
>>>> Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
>>>>
>>>> T: +61 3 9596 3456
>>>>
>>>> F: +61 3 9596 3625
>>>>
>>>> M: 0419 574 668
>>>>
>>>> W: www.abelard.com.au
>>>>
>>>> Skype: geoffrey.marnell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lana
>>>> Brindley
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:22 AM
>>>>
>>>> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> Subject: atw: Re: Editors conference in Sydney, Sept 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Geoffrey,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what Jean is seeing, of course, but I can see some
>>>>
>>>> borkedness (Google Chrome 13.0.782.107 on Fedora 15). Picture
>>>>
>>>> attached.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 August 2011 08:56, Geoffrey Marnell <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I could find no borking on the first web site. Can you point out
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> problem (and tell us how it's related to Dreamweaver rather than,
>>>> say,
to
>>>>
>>>> Spry). We do bucket loads of Dreamweaver work here and would be
>>>> keen to
know
>>>>
>>>> what to avoid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geoffrey Marnell
>>>>
>>>> Principal Consultant
>>>>
>>>> Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
>>>>
>>>> T: +61 3 9596 3456
>>>>
>>>> F: +61 3 9596 3625
>>>>
>>>> M: 0419 574 668
>>>>
>>>> W: www.abelard.com.au
>>>>
>>>> Skype: geoffrey.marnell
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lana Brindley
>>> writer:speaker:blogger
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one
>>> that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.
>>> --George Orwell
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>> http://lanabrindley.com
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>> Please avoid sending me Word, Powerpoint or Windows Media attachments.
>>> ------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
> --
> Lana Brindley
> writer:speaker:blogger
> ------------------------------------------------
> Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one
> that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.
> --George Orwell
> -----------------------------------------------
> http://lanabrindley.com
> -----------------------------------------------
> Please avoid sending me Word, Powerpoint or Windows Media attachments.
> ------------------------------------------------
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