[audio-pals] Re: Older Houses

  • From: Thomas McMahan <shadowmonstrosity@xxxxxxx>
  • To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 04:33:25 -0500

Thats why you get a good paper work lawyer before closing, let him or her go 
through all the records and make sure the mortgage is clear.  Pay the lawyer a 
little more than minimum too gives them more incentive to as you say be a team 
player and let you know what is being found.  Better to find before closing 
than after because it puts the burden on the seller not you the buyer.  I know 
some people don’t retain a lawyer before closing, but you are taking big 
chances, if we had done that we would have been burned until afterward and it 
probably would have taken a while to clear that up ourselves, instead a lawyer 
found it and let them know that as long as mortgage wasn’t clear the breaks 
were on and their house was going to sit empty and on their hands.  They had it 
cleared in a day, but they paid their lawyer minimum, so he sat back and let 
our’s find the problems.  But you can retain lawyer for that after you’ve put 
down earnest money on the place.  

Glad to see your agent is actually looking out for you guys a little more 
again.  That was one advantage we had was an agent who is basically a straight 
shooter about whats going on.  Would probably deal with her again actually if 
we ever decide to find another place, or sell our’s.  
> On Mar 12, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Josh <lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Our agent comes recommended by Amanda’s dad. Amanda’s step-sister and her 
> boyfriend bought a house using our agent. Sometimes she seems as though she 
> is looking at for us and other times she seems up in the air. However, since 
> having that talk with her the other night she seems more like a team player 
> for us. She is kind of hard to read, but I think so far I am doing alright 
> reading her *LOL*. That is just like the house the other night she warned us 
> about a potential problem with the the foundation. However, the Sunday before 
> that she was practically trying to take our hand and sing us on the dotted 
> lines. This house I just found out about, I texted her and she was trying to 
> talk me out of it. However, once I jogged her memory about the fact we were 
> going to go and look at it, she remembered which one it was and said she 
> would look into it. She was going on about it being a tax sale, but it is not 
> a tax sale and I did my best to stress that to her. It may be heading towards 
> a tax sale, but right now it is just on the market. If we are able to get 
> into it and it is a steal of a deal then the waiting it out to find the right 
> house paid off. It may be sitting though because of further issues, but like 
> Bethann said I believe they have an obligation to disclose major issues with 
> the house here in Tennessee. If they do not disclose and we end up getting 
> the raw end of the deal I would imagine that I would have some sort of 
> recourse. I will have to iquire about that to find out before just singing on 
> the dotted line. We have to go through it to and make sure it is what we have 
> been holding out for before we decide to buy as well.     
> From: audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> [mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Thomas McMahan
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:44 PM
> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
> If your agent was bluffing and it wasn’t the selling agent’s bluff that 
> borders on conflict of interest because at that point your agent borders on 
> representing the buyer.  My suspicion is that the owner’s agent was bluffing 
> or they were.  
> Any seller is going to go for highest bidder, that’s just common sense, but 
> your hunch paid off because it’s still there.  
> Yes it would be interesting to see what this one you are interested in is 
> going for in relation to others in the area.  It could be fire sell where 
> they want out  from under it, that’s how my mother got her house at a good 
> price and that was 1989 which definitely favored the seller not the buyer in 
> our part of the world, but the people that owned it had to move because they 
> were military and had bought another place and wanted out from under the 
> mortgage.  So she got her place for under value actually, and they were quick 
> to sit down and talk to her because she had sold our place in Tennessee not 
> to long before.  Think she paid that place off in under 20 years going on 
> conventional 30 year loan.  But she settled that out upon her retirement I 
> think and just paid it off instead of keeping stuff or so much stuff 
> invested.  The guy at the bank thought she was crazy.  She retired in 06.  
> You know what happened in 08, and most of what she kept invested either held 
> okay or still gained slightly, so I say “good for her.”  
>> On Mar 12, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Josh <lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> To me from what the house has to offer, location, features, school systems, 
>> etc. they are selling this house at a very low price. I will have to have my 
>> agent do a little research and see what other houses in the area have sold 
>> for. I am just speculating here, but I wonder if they are not trying to sell 
>> it before they lose it. We were going to go and see it back a few months 
>> ago, but they had family in and staying with them so we were unable to go 
>> see the house at that point in time. So, they are still living in it too. I 
>> imagine that it is very close to foreclosure. I did a little research on the 
>> other house that my agent said had an offer on it. When she let me know she 
>> told me it had an offer and the owners were giving the offer till noon the 
>> next day in case we wanted to place an offer. My agent said they were 
>> looking for the highest and best offer. I speculated that this was a selling 
>> tactic on the part of the selling agent or perhaps on part of my agent so we 
>> would make an offer out of impulse. However, I told her we would just pass 
>> and it just so happens I found out one of three things happened. The first 
>> thing is that could have happened is they did not accept the offer or it 
>> fell through for some reason, the second thing that could have happened is 
>> there never was an offer on the house so the selling agent was bluffing or 
>> the third thing is my agent was bluffing and I called well you know what I 
>> called *LOL*. We went and looked at the house earlier in the week and this 
>> Sunday it has an open house. So, I called the realty company selling the 
>> house and just acted like an interested buyer to find out about the upcoming 
>> open house. The secretary gave me the agent’s cell number. I called him and 
>> inquired and he actually gave me the date and time of the one that we went 
>> and looked at. I should have asked him if the offer fell through, but I did 
>> not *LOL*. He  also told me about another one that I do not think Amanda was 
>> aware of. The fact that this one was still on the market after the fact 
>> makes me wonder if the others that we were told sold actually sold or not.   
>> From: audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> [mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of BethAnn LaPresta 
>> (Redacted sender "bela28_02@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:bela28_02@xxxxxxxxx>" for 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 3:56 PM
>> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
>> This would HAVE to be disclosed to you by the sellers at the time you placed 
>> an offer (if you were going to).  When the agent selling a home takes the 
>> listing, they usually "open" title with a title company that would spell all 
>> of that out.  So, everyone should be very aware of this...if your agent 
>> isn't yet and you are interested, I would ask her.  This becomes a 
>> negotiating point.  The seller is required to sell you a home with a clear 
>> title, if the city and/or county has placed a lien on the property (or 
>> anyone else for that matter), this would be something that you must insist 
>> is paid up before closing.  It may also be something that you negotiate in 
>> as far as you guys may be willing to pay the back taxes, but it will come 
>> out of the proceeds of the house.  Honestly, this one sounds a little 
>> scary...why are they behind?  Is the mortgage also behind?  Are they in 
>> foreclosure yet with the lender?  Are they going to do a short sale?  Lots 
>> of questions if you're really interested.
>> From: Josh <lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 12:22 PM
>> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
>> Hey this may be a question that you can answer here, I was doing some 
>> rsearch on the property that Amanda and I are potentially interested in. 
>> Well, I called the city tax office and found out that this property has both 
>> city and county taxes which I already knew. However, I also found out that 
>> they are upside down in their taxes. I found out the property owners are two 
>> years delinquent on their taxes at both the city office and the county 
>> office. The city office mentioned that I would want to go through a title 
>> company to purchase this property. I do not know why the title company was 
>> recommended though. Do you have any knowledge regarding properties that are 
>> delinquent on their taxes and up for sale? 
>> From: audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> [mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of BethAnn LaPresta 
>> (Redacted sender "bela28_02@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:bela28_02@xxxxxxxxx>" for 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 3:01 PM
>> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
>> I found a 3% down program in 2011---you had to have a 680 credit score or 
>> better at that time through my credit union.  A true conventional loan is 
>> 20% down, but there are exceptions depending on your bank.  There are also a 
>> lot of low down payment options for first time home buyers, so it's good to 
>> check around.
>> From: Josh <lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 11:45 AM
>> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
>> That sounds about right, since the lender has only talked about that option. 
>> However, if we end up getting a house that is around 100 K then we may be 
>> able to do conventional. Conventional requires what 10% down or 5% down? 
>> From: audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> [mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of BethAnn LaPresta 
>> (Redacted sender "bela28_02@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:bela28_02@xxxxxxxxx>" for 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 11:11 AM
>> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
>> I am fairly certain that with an FHA loan, you will have the taxes and 
>> insurance in your monthly payment already.
>> From: Josh <lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 3:40 AM
>> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
>> Well, before we decide that any house is the house we want, we make sure 
>> that we can afford it with the rest of our bills. As far as escroe goes we 
>> have not discussed that so that is something that we will have to discuss as 
>> the time draws near. As I read on down through your email it appears that we 
>> have discussed the whole escroe aspect. We definitely have had each payment 
>> considered with tax and insurance in mind with the payment.
>> From: audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> [mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:audio-pals-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Thomas McMahan
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:58 AM
>> To: audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:audio-pals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [audio-pals] Re: Older Houses
>> I accidentally hit the send before cleaning up that mail darn it.  
>> Here’s another little exercise to work on.  Lets say you guys decide to go 
>> for this house.  You should have a ballpark of the monthly payment.  Sit 
>> down and plot out a budget around it on one paper, as well as a list of 
>> possible repairs to do on another list and their costs.  Yes a house payment 
>> can be cheaper than rent, but their are other realities such as the taxes, 
>> and insurance.  Are you going to escrow your insuranc and tax payments into 
>> your house payment?  Most people do that and it usually works out well until 
>> they assess your house taxes up and then you have to make up the short fall. 
>>  Of course if they assess them downward you get a chunk of money back in the 
>> mail like my sister-in-law has done the past two years.  I didn’t escro my 
>> other payments.  I deal with insurance as I would any other utility, and we 
>> would do our taxes on our own.  Because of that I now pay my insurance once 
>> a year and it’s cheaper, and once the house was paid for there was less 
>> entanglement with the bank.  I even removed the automatic withdraw for house 
>> payment because they double dipped us a couple of different months, and 
>> didn’t have a very good explanation as to why.  So it put us into over draw 
>> land, which isn’t a place you want to be.  They did the same to my 
>> sis-in-law too and she went in and practically threw a fit because she 
>> wasn’t working at the time and didn’t have income yet.  They refunded her 
>> money on that one, but as she asked them, “now how am I supposed to pay the 
>> rest of my bills?  You think you guys are my only bill to pay?”  Banks and 
>> their computers can be sloppy sometimes.  
>> Now when you do your budget here’s another game to play which may be 
>> beneficial.  Can you run your whole budget on one income?  Everybody that 
>> lives as a couple should do this whether renting or paying for a house.  
>> Most of us find we can’t, but it is a nice goal.  The guy we had going along 
>> with us to check out houses etc and sort of pointed and guided us along 
>> through the process gave us that little bit of wisdom.  As he said, what 
>> happens if Pat loses her job and can’t get one very fast?  Can you live on 
>> just your income alone, because if you can get to that point, then you can 
>> start paying extra against your house on it’s principle and have more paid 
>> off faster which is good for the credit rating, but if you decide to move in 
>> 20 years you are carrying less of a load thus will get more money back to 
>> leverage against your next place should you decide to do that.  Or you can 
>> both pay some extra on house and car, then put the rest in the bank against 
>> major repairs which are going to come even if you buy a house that was built 
>> today, in 30 years you will have to had to replace things, they just don’t 
>> build stuff that good anymore and sometimes that includes homes btw.  
>> Lots of decisions, but at least it looks like you guys aren’t just jumping 
>> right and grabbing what shines in front of you which is good.  
>> Btw, I don’t think our budget is currently within the lowest income level of 
>> the house here at this time which would be Patti’s income, although it’s not 
>> way above that amount.  It is a good goal to work for actually, so we will 
>> be able to start seriously working on this place.  Get a lot of little stuff 
>> done over time, then do a loan down the road and fix the major stuff such as 
>> re doing the roof etc.  I don’t think I am going to lift the house and work 
>> on foundation, but it would be nice to do actually.  
>> But it’s a good exercise to do.  I would run it on your income Josh because 
>> it is likely to always be there and Amanda’s income is the variable one, it 
>> can be lower if she’s out of work, but can also be a lot higher should land 
>> a great paying job.  Drop in everything, credit cards the whole deal, then 
>> figure out once you get to where you’re going which angles to cover and get 
>> paid off in the budget.  
>> I am guessing you guys have done some of this already though in preparing 
>> for checking out the housing market and talking to lenders because they are 
>> going to do roughly the same thing when checking your credit etc.  
>> Especially if it’s a conservative bank.  
>> Now I think I’ve completed all I was going to say.  Took two e-mails, but if 
>> I had been able to clean up the other one first it would have fitted into 
>> one probably *lol*.  
>> Instead you get two.  
>>> On Mar 12, 2015, at 3:34 AM, Thomas McMahan <shadowmonstrosity@xxxxxxx 
>>> <mailto:shadowmonstrosity@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>> Wouldn’t worry about a house on market for 5 months.  Most around here are 
>>> on a year or so.  To many deals fall through each time that happens that 
>>> just adds more time that the house is sitting there.  Age, is only a 
>>> problem if the house hasn’t been kept up and modernized over the years.  
>>> There are people who prefer older houses simply because they are more 
>>> solid.  The house I live in was placed here in 1922.  Yes it came from 
>>> somewhere else.  The house next door is older and was also brought in here 
>>> from another place too.  Fairly common in a town that springs up by a 
>>> railroad.  I wouldn’t worry so much about that as apposed to how it’s 
>>> fundamentally built, there are a lot of newer places that are likely to 
>>> give you just as much trouble if not more.  
>>> Any house is going to have ongoing mantainence of some kind.  Sided house 
>>> are nice but siding fades over the years for example and eventually would 
>>> need replacing.  Wooden houses have their things that have to be done, and 
>>> so would brick, but brick is the best option as far as I’m concerned accept 
>>> maybe when a big earthquake comes, then I would favor a wooden house, but 
>>> what are the chances of that huh?  
>>> I don’t know the market down there anymore so don’t know if that is a low 
>>> ball figure on that house or not, but I can tell you it is larger than mine 
>>> is and mine is two stories, but so is it’s price too.  
>>> Go through it with a fine tooth comb with the idea of what has to be fixed 
>>> now, and then in the next 5 years and what would be ongoing over the years, 
>>> I don’t think for the long term ongoing it will be much different than a 10 
>>> year old house verses the 60 year old house, but agin it is a matter of 
>>> what would immediately have to be worked on.  When was the house last 
>>> occupied too?  A house that hasn’t been occupied for a good while can have 
>>> problems such as drainage because they haven’t been flushed etc.  It sounds 
>>> like you already have someone with you who knows how to examine a 
>>> foundation well and give you an idea of what would have to be done and when 
>>> which is good.  Same with tuck pointing brick etc.  
>>> It may be sitting on market because folks think it’s to high also, but you 
>>> are going to drop in a price and they will take it or leave it, or you both 
>>> the buyer and seller will eventually come up with something in the middle, 
>>> or the seller is going to have an empty house on their hands.  
>>> What heating and cooling does it have, and when was it installed too that 
>>> is a factor, a 30 year old furnace is getting kind of old in this part of 
>>> the world, but most of our furnaces are gas and they do have to work pretty 
>>> hard for a good part of the year.  Does it have any chimnies, and where do 
>>> they run through the house.  Ones that run through centers of houses on the 
>>> surface are nice, but when they have to be worked on they are a lot more 
>>> work.  Of course where you live a lot of homes are electric heat and 
>>> electric water heat, which is another thing to add to your check list, how 
>>> old is the water heater and when will you be replacing that.  A brand new 
>>> house obviously you would get to wait a while before doing that, but 
>>> chances are you would have to do it eventually, or have your price knocked 
>>> down when you are selling it, or when your descendants are selling it.  But 
>>> that goes with any house again.  
>>> What neighborhood is it in?  How accessible is it to you.  Pretend Amanda 
>>> had to leave town for a Month and start your math, what is easy to get to 
>>> via walking etc.  Maybe that isn’t a problem for you at this moment, but 
>>> life can always hand you changes, and well, next thing you know, you are 
>>> walking to the grocery store if you know what I mean.  
>>> Find out what their highest bills were for each utility in the last year it 
>>> was occupied if you can, you need that in planning a general budget.  I 
>>> don’t know your property tax situation anymore, but here they just give an 
>>> estimate from the seller, but the problem is, that if the sell lived in the 
>>> house for a long time you might get a little surprise when the annual taxes 
>>> come.  Our’s wasn’t a surprise because the previous owner hadn’t lived or 
>>> owned the house for to long.
>>> So it becomes also a matter of do you get a house that you won’t have to do 
>>> any work or as little work as possible on, verses one that may have to have 
>>> some work done, or one that is a fixer upper.  We bought a fixer upper, but 
>>> when we bought it was a seller’s market, it definitely isn’t that nowadays, 
>>> so we went for a house we knew we could likely get.  Well the trade off is 
>>> that it’s needed work done on it and still does actually, but likely we 
>>> would at least get some money back when we sell it.  Maybe not a lot but 
>>> probably some when all is said and done, and of course the sell of this 
>>> place could be the lverage to getting a better place.  It’s probably what 
>>> you parents did, if not them then your grand parents did, that is more the 
>>> normal thing in history.  Well up until recently where you have people who 
>>> expect to buy a brand new house that is larger than what their parents 
>>> owned as their first house.  Well if it can be swung, go for it, but to me 
>>> it’s a little unrealistic, well to my income level it is *lol*.  
>>> What appliances are already there, and how quickly do you think you will be 
>>> having to replace say: stove, washer, or more of a bear dishwasher?  What 
>>> about cabinetry etc, is Amanda happy with that, having that done can also 
>>> be expensive unless you have someone who works with you to give you a 
>>> break.  How much stuff will you guys do on your own for modifications 
>>> verses having to hire outsiders.  So yes the advantage of a new place is 
>>> that you won’t have to do that, but I guarantee you will pay up front for 
>>> that, but that is why newer houses don’t stay on market long.  
>>> So then it falls back to degree of work and mantainence that has to be 
>>> done.  
>>>> On Mar 11, 2015, at 9:41 PM, Josh <lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx 
>>>> <mailto:lawdog911@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>   We are finding tons of older houses that we absolutely love. When I say 
>>>> older I am talking 1950’s. I am struggling with this a bit though because 
>>>> I am looking ahead, past when I am living there. Or rather to the point 
>>>> that I am ready to not live there anymore. So, when I get to the point of 
>>>> not wanting to live there anymore it could be 10, 20, 30 or more years 
>>>> down the road, but I am sure there will come a time that I am ready to 
>>>> move on. If this is not the case and I stay there until I die then it is 
>>>> not a concern, However, a 1950 house that I live in for 20 years will then 
>>>> be 85 years old. I know the specific house that we are looking at has been 
>>>> on the market for right about 5 months. So, what do you all think, do you 
>>>> think I would have trouble selling an 85 year old home? It is on the 
>>>> market for 5 months at the age of 65 years old. It is right about 
>>>> 112,000.00 right now without negotiating a lower price. Do you think I 
>>>> would be able to get my money back? If it is not a major concern, the age 
>>>> of the house, then I will not let it sway my decision, but taking into 
>>>> consideration that it is an all brick rancher with over 1700 sq. ft. and 
>>>> it is almost 100,000.00 and still on the market concerns me regardless how 
>>>> beautiful the house seems right now.         

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