Thanks Robert. I understand, sort of, I think (smile).
The recording and playback meters have been available to screen readers for
some time. One only gets the peak, but that is most valuable. With JAWS it is
necessary to tab out of the meter and back to get a change. With NVDA one can
simply read the current line to get an update.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Robert Hänggi
Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2018 2:26 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: adjusting volume on separate tracks using jaws
Andrew, congrats, that's exactly what should happen, the two tracks should add
up to -1 dB.
I wasn't aware that you (can) read the peak meter.
As for amplify after record:
I Normalize the tracks (recorded or imported) to e.g. -6 dB.
This works exactly like amplify (with all tracks selected) except that each
track's amplification is different such that each one has a level of -6 dB in
the end.
In contrast, amplify takes the amplification factor of the loudest track and
applies it to each track. Let's say our tracks are:
Track 1 -20 dB
Track 2 -9 dB
Track 3 -4 dB
After amplify (to 0 dB):
Track 1 -16 dB
Track 2 -5 dB
Track 3 0 dB
With Normalize, (to 0 dB) all tracks would be 0 dB.
I use normalize before gain staging because I want similar levels for all
tracks and since I will change the gain anyway, I don't need to preserve the
balance as amplify would do.
And you can even do better: use the ReplayGain Nyquist plug-in which normalizes
the levels according to some psychoacoustic model.
As with normalize, you would enter some negative offset, e.g. -6 dB.
However, it won't be the same. I have here two tracks, and after ReplayGain,
the levels are as follows:
Chirp -21.2 dB
Pink noise -9.7 dB
Mix -8.1 dB
With normalization (to -6 dB) instead, the mix is -0.4 dB.
So, the offset for ReplayGain should be a bit less.
As you know, the peak meter shows only values below 0 dB and thus it makes
sense to first bring the tracks to a fairly low level.
The big question is how low is enough.
For two tracks it is easy. Suppose that both are 0 dB = 1.0 linearly.
In the worst case, they will add up to 2.0 or 6.02 dB.
Therefore, -6.02 dB is our normalization factor that guaranties that the
overall level won't exceed 0 dB.
For 16 Tracks, we would have a sum of 16.0 or 24 dB in the worst case.
However, in real life, it is not likely that we have a sample 1.0 in all 16
tracks at the same time. Normally, +3 dB is assumed for two different signals,
which is nothing but taking the square root.
In our 16 track example, this would mean taking the square root of the sum.
SQRT(16.0) = 4.0 = 12 dB.
That's a value that ensures some security but does not cover the worst case.
However, we can hardly do the gain staging without hearing the tracks... ;)
Cheers
Robert
On 14/03/2018, Andrew Downie <access_tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Robert. I sort of think I have it. Life was complicated by
getting different readings on two machines, one with a slightly older
version of Audacity. With it I could get a combined level above 0,
but that does not happen on this machine.
Question: Having recorded the two or more original tracks, do you
amplify them before doing the mix down? My testing suggests no.
Your chirp example didn't quite work for me, as my levels were around
minus
1 before I took them down to minus 20. When I then did a mix down and
amplified with the mix track included, I boosted the level to minus 1.
As you said, having removed the mix track, Amplify showed the level as
minus 7 but the playback meter showed minus 1.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Robert Hänggi
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 10:12 PM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: adjusting volume on separate tracks
using jaws
Hi Andrew
Amplify proposes a value in the first field that makes the result 0 dB
eventually when you immediately press OK.
If you want some head room, you should subtract this value.
So, you could do it like this:
Open Amplify (shows any number) -> OK
Open Amplify (shows now 0) enter -1 -> OK
This is fine for small projects but if you have a long track or a lot
of tracks, it is easier to do it in one go.
This means that you have to subtract the 1 dB headroom from the
proposed value, i.e. +/- proposed value - head room.
Let's do an example:
- create a chirp
- duplicate it
- select all
- amplify (it will show 20 dB, presumably)
Don't play the tracks, they are too loud...
- Now, mix them down to a new track (Control+Shift+M)
- select the track too.
- amplify, it should now show -6.02 dB
- change the 6 to 7 and OK
- delete the mix track.
The individual tracks will have a level of -7.02 dB.
However, if you export the track, the volume will be at -1 dB.
And, as mentioned before, this works even if you have applied some
gain/pan on the tracks.
The trick is to start out with a low level in the first place.
I normalize my tracks after recording to -6 or -10 dB.
Then, I start with gain staging.
Once you've grasped the concept, you could do another of your fine
audio tutorials. ;-)
Cheers
Robert
On 13/03/2018, steve schnelle <papaschnelle@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Something else I am puzzled about is that Audacity only records on
one channel of my headphones when I record. However, I can hear both
channels, right and left, when I record on track 2, 3 Etc. Is it
supposed to be this way?.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew ;
Downie
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:07 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: adjusting volume on separate tracks
using jaws
Robert, that all works for my feeble brain up to 4.1. I don't
understand the negative and positive numbers bit. In the test I did
my level for all tracks, including the mix track, is minus 6.5. I
subtract a DB and get minus 7.5, as I expected. When deleting the
mix track my level has dropped to minus 8.5.
Or did you mean the field where it shows the maximum permitted level?
My concern about using Gain is that it can push a track into clipping
which, if I have it right, does not happen when using Amplify.
Are you able to explain at a level for this simpleton?
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Robert Hänggi
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 3:45 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: adjusting volume on separate tracks
using jaws
Hi Steve
For a multi-track project, the gain staging that you've described is
ideal
because:
- you can adjust while listening
- it is non-destructive and needs therefore no calculation
Did you know that there are convenient shortcuts defined?
Shift+Alt+ up/down increase/decrease gain by 1 dB left/right pan
Shift+Alt+ left/right by 10 % (-100 to +100 % or -1 to
1 lineraly)
For numeric inputs, use Shift+G or Shift+P respectively.
Here is how you can normalize the project after the gain levels are
set to your liking:
1. select all (Control+A)
2. mix down to new track (Control+Shift+M) 3. Select the created
track as well (either by pressing enter or
Control+A again)
4. open amplify
if you want to normalize to -1 dB:
4.1 if the number displayed is negative, subtract another dB, e.g.
-6 dB gets -7 dB, OK
4.2 if the number is positive, subtract as well, e.g. 3 dB gets 2
dB, OK 5.
after amplifying has finished, delete the mix track (Shift+C) 6.
listen to the result.
Don't use normalize for this task because it won't work.
Cheers
Robert
On 12/03/2018, Teddy Galanos <tr.galanos@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Steve,my current project is all good.
After adjusting each track's gain to your liking, the mix down will
need to be adjusted or compressed again. Why? The total gain will
likely be negative. This means clipping.
<http://paypal.me/TedGalanos/> Ted Galanos - Audio Creation &
Technical Help.
Donations for Blind Audio Projects & Technical Assistance are welcomed.
Address:
Woodridge Nursing & Rehab.
8810 Long Point Rd. #302B
Houston, Tx 77055
Phone: +1-832-632-7779
Mobile: +1-832-706-7102
Skype: tedster1
Email: <mailto:tr.galanos@xxxxxxxxx> tr.galanos@xxxxxxxxx
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of
things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of steve ;
schnelle
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 8:24 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: adjusting volume on separate tracks
using jaws
Hi to all and a big thank you who have helped with this question. I
found some info on the web as well that pointed me to the gain menu,
CTRL G. From there I arrowed down once to the set gain area where I
used the left and right arrows to change the volume. It seems too
easy and I wonder if this changes just the volume on playback or if
this changes the volume in the project that is being manipulated.
Steve
_____
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew ;
Downie
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 1:49 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: adjusting volume on separate tracks
using jaws
Hi Steve
Ted can give you more precise info via Skype, but the following may
give food for thought. Without knowing how much you know already, I
may give too much or too little detail here. If too little, by all
means ask for more.
The first crucial issue to understand is selecting and deselecting
individual tracks. Pressing Enter will toggle selection and JAWS
will announce the change. To make changes to a track it must be
selected.
If you inadvertently have more than one track selected that can lead
to tears, although Audacity's undo feature is good.
Having selected a track, you can adjust the level for all of it or
just a selection. I won't go into further detail here about that, a
this mp3 intro <https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/v56cn4> I did a
while ago may be of interest.
Having selected the audio whose level you want to adjust, go to the
Effects Menu (alt-c) and arrow down to Amplify. The value you are
offered is what will take the audio to 0dB, but you can choose
whatever value you want, either increasing or decreasing the level.
I suggest practising on a non-crucial recording.
Andrew
.
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On Behalf Of steve
schnelle
Sent: Monday, 12 March 2018 10:19 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] adjusting volume on separate tracks using
jaws
Hi folks. I have a test project with 4 tracks, drums,
bass, guitars ETC. I'd like to know how I can adjust each track
separately, guitar down, drums up ETC. Thanks for any help.
Steve
_____
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robbie
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:40 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Horrible Problems with Audacity
Hi Diane!
Well it's good that you're sorted for the time being. It's hard to
guess what might prevent your keys from working. One thing that
occurs to me is that if a track is playing while another track is
soloed, you don't necessarily notice it. In that case some key
strokes, such as j and k won't work, while cursor left/right won't
seem to have an effect. If you then press space, thinking you're
starting playback, you have in fact stopped it.
And of course, j and k won't have an effect if no track is selected.
Even if your project contains one track only, it needs to be
selected by pressing Enter.
Cheers! Robbie
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Diane ;
Scalzi
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:51 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Horrible Problems with Audacity
Hi Robbie,
I am using a Dell desktop running the latest version of Windows 10,
Audacity
2.2.1.0 and JAWS 2018. I was trying to rescue my old project file,
but then last night decided to rerecord my document. The current
file is working properly. By the way, there is audio in the old
project. I am able to play it but a lot of it is missing. and as I
said, the keyboard commands don't all work. If you have any ideas
about what could be causing the problem, I will keep them for future
reference, but
Thanks.there.
Diane
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robbie
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:56 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Horrible Problems with Audacity
Hi Diane!
Please let us know if you're on Windows or Mac, which screen reader
and what version of Audacity you're using.
If you reinstalled the program, that means you saved the apparently
damaged version of the project?
If as you say the key strokes for navigating a track do not work,
that suggests that there is no track in the project. Can you move
the cursor up and down? If not, press alt-t, n, s to add a new track.
That track will be numbered according to the number of tracks in the
project. If there is no track in the project, the new track will be
Track 1. In that case your project is empty. If the new track has
any other number, there are tracks still in the project. Let's take
it from
me rescue it.
Cheers! Robbie
From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Diane ;
Scalzi
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:34 AM
To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [audacity4blind] Horrible Problems with Audacity
Hi Everyone,
I am in a lot of trouble with this Audacity I think. I am in a
project and apparently erased most of it. The usual commands for
navigating the track aren't working. I have tried reinstalling the
program with no results. I guess my project is toast, but I'm
hopping someone can help
Thanks.
Diane
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