[audacity4blind] Re: Labels

  • From: Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 10:41:44 +0100

> From: Gary Campbell
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 11:45 PM
> To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Labels
> This morning I decided it was time to try to do something with the
> cassettes I copied.  Most of them are buried in the garage, and I've
> been guarding the Emerson boombox I inherited from my folks, the only
> machine I have that will play stereo cassettes - guarding it from
> meeting the fate that all of the kids' other boomboxes have met!  So I
> transferred side one of Bridge over Troubled Water and started to work
> on it.  I ran Analyze > Sound Finder and started to deal with the labels.
> I went to the label track and tabbed.  I used the JAWS script keys to
> read the start and end times, skipping short times as misfires.
> So now I have a label that covers several minutes, so I move to the
> audio track and SPACE.  I use c to see what's on either side of the
> region and hear that the label doesn't cover the whole song.
> Then I wanted to leave the region selected, move back a few seconds,
> play to the start of the song, set the left end of the region, move to
> the end of the region, play after the region to the end of the song and
> set the right end of the region-- then to transfer the settings of the
> region to the label.  What I did was move to the start of the region,
> play to the start of the song and mark it, read the number and remember
> it, ALT+t,e, find the label (by start and stop time, or sometimes I
> entered the song name in the label track), close the label editor and
> refind the start of the song because I forgot a couple of digits of the
> time, go back into the editor, find the label, and set the start time.
> Then do the same at the end of the region, go back to the editor and set
> the end time.  Then space to see how the start time was, and c to see if
> it got it all.  Just a little blerp in the middle of the c playback.
> The beginning or the end?  Go to the selection bar and start playing
> with the start and end times until the blerp went away.  Then remember
> the start and end times, go to the label editor, find the label, set the
> times-- was it 604 or was that from the last one?  Close the editor and
> check the start.  Rightarrow to move to the end of the selection and
> check it.  Then on to the next one.

In general, point labels are enough in order to export multiple.
I just made a quick test with "The very best of 10CC" and the album
gap marker in this topic:

The default settings work just fine for this album.
Note that it creates no label for the first song (but you can check
the "include audio before first label" in the export dialog.
The label texts are empty, you can assign names on export.
So, after applying the effect, I simply press play and tap through the
labels in order to control their position.
My NVDA module translates "tap" into tap+enter"resume play. This makes
it very fast to go through all labels.
I can edit a field by pressing "F2", just as in the Label editor.
Tabbing in stop mode does automatically speak the start time (or label
text or both, one can toggle this info).
However, I then immediately went to multiple export and the 15 tracks
have been successfully created, although it takes ages imo.
It might seem strange that one comes away with pure point labels, but
that's how it is.
Use region labels only if you want to exclude anything from the tracks
(e.g. the gap inbetween)
With the album gap marker above, you would probably mark the gaps,
delete them and immediately create a point label at this position.
I could of course add the option to select the song instead of the
gap, I'll think about it.

> So what could help?  Not quite sure.  I have your patched Audacity
> running as I write this, and I think the transfer should be done, so I'm
> going for side 2.  I think a keystroke that would transfer the current
> region to the currently selected label would help.  There isn't any
> keyboard support for those things you can do by dragging those circles
> and triangles around.  Not sure how to do them with a keyboard.
There are methods available that can imitate some of this
functionality. Most of the time it is easiest to just delete and
rewrite the label text.
> Maybe in the label editor if when you aren't editing a field maybe
> space, c, and such could act like in the track view.

That's something I requested a long time ago.
It's one of the short comings I've mentioned at the very beginning of
this topic.
However, I think the label editor has first to be accessible on all
platforms in order to make some progress in that direction. The whole
(grid) layout seems to be under-developed.
Leland may be able to make a modeless dialog out of it. This would
mean that the editor would be still open and that certain keystrokes
would work from within the dialog (e.g. amplify).

> BTW: I notice in the patched version that the track view identifies as a
> list box instead of -- was it track table?  Oh, but it now gives
> position info-- ..." 1 of 2", nice.
It was "Table" and "Row".
NVDA did always say "Row" after e.g. select on, pretty annoying.
JAWS did not recognize this control type (Press Jaws + F1 in an
unpatched version to confirm this).
Jaws says now list box and NVDA just list.
Listview might be an alternative but I'm afraid, it's not an official
control type either.
The Mac uses "Panel" and "static text".

> Forget Sound Finder, faster to do it manually!

Or use the Album gap marker.
The nice thing with the patch is that you know immediately after
applying the effect, how many gaps were found.

> Okay, on the label track pressing SayLine says
> track 2 label track , edit on select on <Bye Bye Love> 2 of 2
> Pressing TAB doesn't voice the next label, but SayLine does, except that
> I have to refresh JAWS for it to notice the change.
That's a peculiarity of Jaws. one has to temporaily remove the focus
in order to refresh the display.
In a script, you can assign this task to a scheduler or refresh the
focus on every key event (i.e. empty the cached properties)
NVDA does always refresh the changed content.

> On the audio track it says
> Garfunkel_s2 select on, stereo 1 of 2
> Hey!! Why is my left channel cutting out!!!  It's a brand new cable!
> Going to have to do it over!  Maybe I can save the labels. Some in EVERY
> SONG!!!
Stereo can also mean dual mono.
You can check it with the vocal removeal effect. Silence means dual
mono. Not unlikely for a Sixties album. (the album should be kicking
about somewhere, I have to check that)

> Interesting.  I have a label selected, then I move to audio track, press
> home, selection bar shows start and end at 0s.  Back to label track,
> refresh, sayline, JAWS still says the label, and when I find the label
> with the JAWS cursor it's still white.

The edit mode is still on, even if you move away from the label track.
Unfortunately, one cannot change the region in this way, it "snaps
back" to the original margins after pressing return in that label.
> The label editor opens on the selected label!
> I think it improved the experience!
> Thanks for your work on this!
> Gary

Thanks Gary
Did you have to change anything in order to see "Stereo" or >Label
text< or "Single Label"?


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