[AR] Re: Orion-14
- From: Craig Fink <webegood@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 07:52:59 -0500
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 2:55 PM John Dom <johndom@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Never mind SF_every great or small realization stems from fantasy
concept(s), what else?
Maybe I missed it in previous emails on tankless solid H2 (protected by a
sunscreen) but how is such massive naked chunk going to be launched to
orbit
or to space?
Some sort of levitation? Gun launch?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of John Stoffel
Sent: vrijdag 15 juni 2018 17:37
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AR] Re: Orion-13
"Craig" == Craig Fink <webegood@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
Craig> Or, does the rock smash through all the layer of the Sun Shield
Craig> and into the blob of oxygen stored tankless like frozen like
Craig> block of concrete reinforce with a web of carbon fiber to add
Craig> strength but not weight. The Astronaut discovers that they have
Craig> only lots 10% of their Oxygen Supply, well within their reserves
Craig> to complete the mission as planned. Nothing a little Duct Tape won't
fix.
What makes you think that frozen oxygen won't react and start sublimating
and expanding rapidly when the heat from the pucture enters this brick?
I think it will do exactly what your saying here, the sublimation will
continue until the temperature drops back to a reasonable low vapor
pressure is reached. But the difference between a solid and a liquid is
that, if the solid is too big to exit the hole it will do all this inside
the tank. The bulk of the stored oxygen is still available for use after
repairing the tank. Whereas a liquid is mobile and the sudden decompression
leads to rapid boiling throughout the liquid. The liquid is going to
quickly leave the tank, then freeze, then sublime down to a "shelf stable"
temperature at a low vapor pressure. The bulk of the stored oxygen just
left is a brilliant blizzard of oxygen snow, like the Apollo 13 Astronauts
witnessed.
And how, pray tell, do you plan on keeping this brick COLD in the first
place? You need to bring it down to *at least* 56.2 degrees Kelvin. And
keep it there. How do you propose this to be done?
It's driven by the vapor pressure temperature curve. Definitely going to
have active cooling to freeze it to begin with, on a long trip Astronauts
are going to need a flow rate of oxygen, so it's going to take a vacuum
pump/compressor to get the pressure up from near vacuum to atmospheric
pressure to breathing or burn in an engine. If the vacuum pump is pulling
a lower vacuum than the solid's current vapor pressure, it acts as an
air-conditioner keeping it cool through sublimation. Heaters to liquefy and
pressurize the tank just before a big burn. But, for long term storage
(months or years) before it is needed, a solid is much more stable.
Now if you want to speculate on how to design a rocket with current
technology for reliability and tolerance to damage (either self inflicted
like Apollo 13 or external like you propose) then do so with at least
*some*
BotE calculations and assumptions that pass the smell test. Or the *buy at
the hardware store* test.
Currently, on the ISS, the oxygen isn't stored as a liquid or bleeding edge
like a solid, but as a gas.
https://www.nasa.gov/content/air-supply-high-pressure-tanks-ready-for-space-station
A tank failure of one of these will look quite different than a blizzard of
oxygen snow out the window. A 6000 psi oxygen rocket launch inside of the
Space Station? I wonder what the NASA study showed. The failure study, not
one showing it statistically improbable.
--
Craig Fink
WeBeGood@xxxxxxxxx
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