Graeme had replied to a part of this question, and I couldn't figure out how to reply without spamming the list with the entirety of the digest. Is there a good way to do that? Ok that aside: Graeme, you had mentioned that Matrix profiles are only colorimetric, which is what I had assumed, but then suggested that using perceptual for scanners is a good idea. Did you mean that I for cLUT based profiles? Shaper can't do this either right? Following that question, If I know what my working space profile will be in the end, is there a way to build a profile that has a specific a2b table to optimize the transformation? ie. going from scanner profile > adobe rgb I currently use the following(replaced strings with # to keep it short) colprof -v -A "Heidelberg" -M "#" -D "#" -O "#" -ZT -qm -bn -as # finally, and on an unrelated topic, is there a way to output a diagnostic that would show which patches show what sort of error like some other software does? This is very helpful in figuring out when something unexpected goes wrong with a patch or two. cheers, d