I like Graeme's "Fuorescent Whitener Reflectance Model". It clearly shows the parameters of the models that need to be evaluate in order to measure surface colors under FWA paper. Unfortunately, not all valirables entering the model are defined? In what Graeme calls the normal spectral reflectance model, there is only one incident light source, Phi sub I (lambda), which represent the incident luminous flux upon the surface characteristic of the illuminant. But in the FWA model, there is a second luminous flux called Phi sub I (mu), which represent some normalized quantity? But "(mu)" then finds its way into the Transmittance of the colorant. And then into the "FWA normalized excitation spectrum". To me, there is only ONE kind of light source incident upon the surface. But I agree then that the UV portion of that light has something to do with how much fluorescence gets excited into the paper. I am not clear on the "Overall FWA excitation level" and the Quantum Yield factor. The "Excitation Spectrum range -- typ. 300-600nm" is not defined either. If I was to operationalize all the variables in Equation 3, I would not know what to plug into E, Q and f(lambda). Before going on with some questions with the rest of the article, I would like to ask about the following idea which does not see too far fetched for me. I understand now that I need to evaluate two quantities: A) how fluorescent is the unprinted paper, B) how different light sources contribute to this fluorescence. Question B has some implications for future color matching under different light sources but Question A poses the fundamental question. Suppose I have a spectrofluorimeter and I can indeed separate the light reflected off the paper itself from the light emitted as a result of UV excitation, then can I assume that the UV excitation will be constant over any colorant level, or will it vary according to the particular colorant? If it coud be demonstrated that the UV excitation off the unprinted paper remains the same for any colorant level (a hard to prove proposition I can image as 400% of ink is likely to absorb so much of the incident light source that hardly and UV excitation will ensue) then the "excitation spectrum" could be subtracted or multiplied spectrally from the raw spectral measurements of any colors? Regards, Roger Breton | Laval, Canada | graxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://pages.infinit.net/graxx