Jack, I wasn't busting over the shirt markup...was just comparing to what happens around here. Sometimes I realize you have to 'eat' the sewing/screening but make it on markup...all turns to $$ in the end. I get really hosed because I only have the one head-but now I'm tied to a Melco tech that has 10 amayas and a 12head barrudan...I can now design and proof it here, email to him and have shirts/hats drop shipped to him. I think his charge for the last job was about 50-75¢ a thousand...I really didn't mind much because it was a rush job for a good account, and I made it on the hat markup-still made about 100% (or 50%) if you figure the other way markup. Doubled my cost...and didn't spend 3 days zoning out on the one head. I have catalogs and flyers coming in my office everyday since I"m an independant ad specialty rep-and have one right here...structured poplin cap, 150 minimum, 3,000 stitches...NET PRICE of $2.99. How can we even come close to that? You can't-don't bother. But look at it this way-customer has NO CHOICE of hat style, limited color choice, setup of $75, freight, and how many hat logos are 3,000 stitiches? Not one that I've done...hey, only 25¢ per thousand extra, but that's a half a buck retail so it adds up. My AVERAGE hat going out the door the last month was $10-$15.....on flexfit structured hats-8,9, even 10k stitches. Only doing 6-12 hats per order, but that's all the customer wants...and I did a couple jackets for one guy, $75 each...another customer, 12 jackets, Sanmar work jacket. $69 for the jacket, $110 for the stitches! Back alone was 69,000 stitches and then another 30k on the front. And he walked out happy along with his $15 hats! So I don't regret losing a 700 shirt order (screenprinted) that would have made me a profit of $200 for 2 days work....I did 3 customer orders in the same time for screenprinting, embroidery, some signs, magnets, whatever-and grossed about $3000. with a net around $1200 for the same time period. Yeah, I'd love to have another one or two Amayas....maybe later.