Roland This is an interesting post. Things don't really change much. The small mom and pop embroiderers really can't compete against the large guys with dozens of heads sewing 16 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week. These guys will embroider for 40 cents a 1000 all day long. Just look at OTTO's prices. I am not singling them out for ridicule at all. They do good work. You can look at others too. A minimum 48 hat order can be sewed for $1.60 each for 4K stitches. If you do contract embroidery you can't compete with that. There are contractors out there doing flats for 40 cents too. My rate is $2.50 plus $.50/1000. There is no way I can make any money doing embroidery alone. I have to have the garment markup. Jack Fuller -----Original Message----- From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roland R. Irish III Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 08:17 To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [amayausers] Re: Opinions wanted This is an old post, but had I read it back then I would have had this 2¢ to say.... the shirt is from Sanmar, cost is for case price, and over $200 they ship[Jack Fuller] ...