Hi Ian, Glad you had a nice time across the pond. You previously mentioned a US lab for doing the skin biopsy histology for S/P Ratio, etc. Do you have contact info for them? Some info about The G.A.I.N. is up at www.alpacagenetics.com while the complete website is being fabricated, if you are interested. Wayne -----Original Message----- From: alpaca_fibre-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:alpaca_fibre-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ian Watt Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 6:07 PM To: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [alpaca_fibre] Re: FW: Sire Reference Program Wayne, I did receive your earlier mail but then I went off to England for a couple of weeks!! Great trip travelling the canals of Shropshire and Wales in a narrow boat - guaranteed stress buster! I am awaiting a note from my Australian lab with all the details and will be incorporating them into the final release of the plan. I have had a good response from a very limited mail out and am confident that it will appeal to those forward thinkers who want to work away from the show circuit. I will let you know the details as soon as I have them - hopefully later this week. The advance copies of the book have arrived and I am posting your copy on Monday. It looks better than I had hoped which is both exciting and a relief! Hope you are well. Cheers, Ian On Wednesday, Apr 7, 2004, at 05:58 US/Pacific, Sixth Day Farm wrote: > Hi Ian, > > I'm re-sending this as I never got a response about the lab doing the > skin biopsies so I thought perhaps you didn't get the e-mail. > > Best Wishes, > > Wayne > > ***************************************************** > Dr. and Mrs. Wayne C. Jarvis "In the beginning, God > created.... " > Genesis > 1:1 > > home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.sixthdayfarm.com > > Everyone talks about genetic improvement, at Sixth Day Farm we're DOING > IT. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sixth Day Farm [mailto:home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:27 PM > To: 'alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' > Subject: RE: [alpaca_fibre] Sire Reference Program > > Hi Ian, > > I am getting ready to do biopsies at our shearing day in May. I have > everything I need to take the samples. I was going to send them to the > histology lab at OSU for slides to be made and then read them myself, > but would prefer to send them to a lab in the US that already > understands reading them for S/P ratio and density. Tell me about the > processing you have available: how and where to send the samples, cost, > and exactly how and what they will report. Thanks! > > Also, The G.A.I.N. will be up and running by June. Any of your list > members who want to send in all of this phenotypic data that they are > collecting for the sire reference site can submit the data for their > sires, and or their hembras as well, and get computer generated reports > of EPDs for all of the important traits that they want to select for > and > make genetic predictions about the offspring for. Any who don't know > about what EPDs are and their value for accelerating genetic gain in > their herds can read the chapters on genetics in your upcoming > International Alpaca Handbook, or the articles I wrote for Alpacas > Magazine in 2002 and 2003, or the article on EPDs on Mike Safley's > website excerpted from his book, or they can come to my lectures at the > AOBA National Conference in Louisville. > > Wayne > > P.S. Don't tell me the handbook is really being printed ALREADY! > > ***************************************************** > Dr. and Mrs. Wayne C. Jarvis "In the beginning, God > created.... " > Genesis > 1:1 > > home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.sixthdayfarm.com > > Everyone talks about genetic improvement, at Sixth Day Farm we're DOING > IT. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alpaca_fibre-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:alpaca_fibre-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Watt > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:03 PM > To: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [alpaca_fibre] Sire Reference Program > > I am delighted to announce that I have found a laboratory to undertake > the follicle and density counts for alpacas both here and in Australia. > I have also secured a website to be called alpacasiresUSA.com which > will be the home of the new sire listing I wrote to you all about > several months ago. > I have extended the original concept to now include some phenotype > features that may help disclose the underlying genotype of sires of the > future. I am awaiting a response from Elizabeth Paul and will, in all > probability, include details of gum, toenail, point and eyelid colour > in the sire disclosure list. I would be very interested if anyone has > any comments about this aspect of the project. > I am pasting the new program guidelines into this email for you to > peruse and consider. If you have any comments, I would greatly > appreciate you airing them on this site so we can all share the > thoughts. > Incidentally, another 20 odd breeders have joined the list as they > attended a workshop in California several weeks ago. New workshops are > planned for Maine, Colorado and Virginia later this year. > And the International Alpaca Handbook is finally off the presses and at > the bindery awaiting binding!! > Cheers, > Ian Watt > > ALPACA SIRE REFERENCE PROGRAM > > Preamble > Selection of sires is possibly the single most important breeding > decision any owner makes in striving for excellence in their alpaca > business. > The impact of a sire across a herd is more significant than any other > single breeding decision. > The American alpaca industry uses more sires across its national herd > than is probably necessary. Supporters of a wide gene pool for the > industry would dispute this, but, from a production perspective, it is > hard to argue an alternative point of view. > The lack of a breed standard (for the industry) allows the broadest > possible interpretation on what comprises an acceptable conformation. A > show standard goes beyond what is, or could reasonably be expected of, > an animal primarily devoted to fibre production ie the show standard > aims at a much higher level of conformation correctness than is usually > reflected in a fibre production breeding emphasis. > Breeders who aim for fibre excellence in their alpacas often lack the > tools with which to make informed and productive genetic selections. > Too often males are offered for service that have little or no > supportive objective data that provide objectively obtained information > for the female owner and breeder. This information may not be important > to many breeders (at the moment) but will become increasingly important > as the rate of genetic improvement becomes harder and harder to > achieve. This is reflected most dramatically when the phenotype > differences between animals being considered for joining are not > immediately or apparently obvious. > Breeders seeking superior fibre characteristics and production will be > looking for more than show results and perceived quality than is > currently the industry standard in the United States. > Breeders aiming to sit inside the top 20% or better of the national > herd (any national herd) will seek more and more objectively measured > information to aid their individual selection processes. > Professionally oriented breeders will adopt a much more challenging > approach to the selection of sires and this will also apply to the > introduction of new female genetics into the individual herd as well. > This program is designed to not only apply objective assessment data to > both male and female selection criteria but to also show a way for > progressive breeders to position themselves for the future in terms of > breeding and selling advanced fibre genetics. > The following criteria suggestions are aimed at sire selections but can > apply equally to female selection protocols as well. > This program is about placing fibre as a higher priority than > conformation by objective measurement and the underpinning of > conformation correctness through strict adherence to a standard. > > The Program > > Because the influence of any sire is far greater across the national > herd than any individual female, it is important that sires be > rigorously examined for possible genetic conformational weaknesses. It > is important that these traits be identified as health and welfare > issues rather than cosmetic or environmental differences or effects. > There is currently no industry conformation standard in place to > measure sires (or females for that matter) against, nor is there any > prospect of being one in the foreseeable future. > The use of objectively collected and measured fleece data is not widely > used in the promotion of sires. > It is doubtful whether many breeders physically examine sires unless > they see them at a show or live close by. Many breeders send females > for mating to sight unseen sires and presumably rely upon a show result > as a tick of conformational approval. This is not necessarily a sound > breeding practice. > > First requirement. > Each sire will be required to pass a physical conformational > examination as described on a pro-forma established for such a purpose. > This examination is identical to that adopted by the Australian Alpaca > Association (AAA) for registration of males as sires approved for > progeny registration into the International Alpaca Register, owned and > operated by the AAA. Under the AAA scheme, any male used to sire cria > able to be registered must pass this test before the sire is used to > get a female pregnant. > Each component of the standard must be passed for the male to be > considered satisfactory - there are no trade-offs, an animal must pass > every requirement. > There is no fleece component. > The examination must be done by a veterinarian so that potentrial > customers can be assured that the certification has been done by an > independent and qualified person. > Second requirement. > Each sire will be required to be fleece tested using the OFDA2000 > testing technology. A fleece sample from each mid-side will be required > and the average of the two tests used as the final figure. > The sample will be collected by an independent person, divided in half > with one sample forwarded by the sampler to the program coordinator and > the other half retained by the owner under seal. > The information required by the program will include micron, standard > deviation, coefficient of variation, comfort factor, staple length, > colour and average fibre profile. > > > > > > Third requirement. > The fleece will be weighed at shearing by an independent person who > will record total fleece weight and saddle. The male will be required > to be shorn from the ears down the neck, the body and legs down to the > knee, excluding the tail. > The weight will be recorded and affirmed by the owner. > The shorn fleece will be raised to a height of eighteen inches from a > table top and dropped. This will be done three times and the weight of > the fleece recorded. This procedure will remove a considerable part of > any dust in the fleece. > > > Fourth requirement. > Breeders of coloured alpacas are becoming increasingly aware of the > phenotype expression of the genetics underlying what they see in the > flesh. There is an increasing sophistication being exhibited by > coloured breeders especially since the publication of Elizabeth Paul's > "The Alpaca Colour Key". In order to meet this demand and to foster > itys growth, each male will have any identifying colour spots disclosed > as well as eye colour, eyelid colour, points colour, toenail colour and > gum colour. These potential genetic colour identifiers will be > important to discerning colour breeders of the future. > > > Additional option. > This option will allow owners of sires to have their sire tested for > primary:secondary follicle count as well as a density count. Owners > will be provided with a kit comprising all the materials and equipment > needed to undertake the test and a comprehensive set of instructions > which will allow a competent person to do the collection without the > need for a veterinarian. It is suggested however that the vet could do > the biopsy at the time of the physical examination. This is a one-off > procedure and is offered for those breeders who might want to identify > their top females within the herd. > > The information derived from the processing of the four requirements > will paint a composite picture of any sire using objectively collected > data. This data can then be used to make some initial assessments of > the sire, allow comparisons between sires and lets sires be assessed on > performance rather than subjective assessment reinforced by emotive > promotion. > The exercising of the additional option adds a far deeper dimension to > the selection process and strikes a very new line of breeder disclosure > to potential customers for sire services. This is very much leading > edge genetics. > > > Access to data > The data and documentation of each sire would then be collated and > processed into a website listing within a listing of "accredited sires" > (or some such identifier). This website would be managed and maintained > by Alpaca Consulting Services of Australia and would be open for public > access. > There would be a fee structure for animals entering the program and an > annual fee to cover the testing, collating and data processing of the > annual shearing results. > Once entered into the site, the animal will remain until, either it > dies, the owner decides to withdraw or no new data has been collected > for two seasons. > There will be a photograph of the sire on the site. > There will be no mention of show results. > There will be an option to link any particular sire to the owners > website or email address. > There will be no service fee or other advertising on the site. > > Benefits > The industry-wide benefit is access to sires demonstrating objectively > measured fleece and conformation information collected by an > independent person. This feature alone will place these sires at the > forefront of breeders minds as the collection, testing and distribution > of the information is not managed by the owner of the sire - a truly > vested interest - but by someone with absolutely no interest in any > animal. > By making the data public both breeders and sire owners have a > benchmark against which they can measure any potential sire but also a > wider range of sires as this program allows any sire, or potential > sire, in. > Over time, the fleece history of the sire will become clear with those > sires not blowing out in any measurable traits becoming more recognized > and thus, potentially, more attractive as future herd sires. > Owners of listed sires will no doubt be recognized as leading edge > breeders as demonstrated through their strength of conviction in > submitting their animals to scrutiny over the internet. > Breeders looking for sires will, for the first time perhaps, have a > broader range of sires from which to select as small breeders unable or > unwilling to exhibit at shows will have a vehicle through which they > can market and promote their animals at minimal cost and at maximum > credibility. > Finally, the conformation examination by a veterinarian will, for the > first time, underpin an expanded guarantee of correctness of > conformation by a sire owner. > These are benefits that will not only enhance the reputation of the > animal but also the owner in an industry which will place more and more > emphasis on fleece production than is currently the case. > In essence, breeders offering sires entered into the program will be > attesting that their animals have met a documented conformation > standard, have undergone independently collected, tested and recorded > fleece measurements and, if selected, are prepared to disclose > secondary to primary follicle ratios to buyers of both animals and > service options. > > > > --- > List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production > ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/ > List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) > > How to Unsubscribe: send an email to alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > and put "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject line of the > email. > > --- > List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production > ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/ > List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) > > How to Unsubscribe: send an email to > alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and put "unsubscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject line of the email. > --- List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/ List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) How to Unsubscribe: send an email to alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and put "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject line of the email. --- List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/ List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) How to Unsubscribe: send an email to alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and put "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject line of the email.