And, to a certain extent, so do I. A customer can only be offered so much
choice. The next customer could say they don't want interlined braille and
the next that they prefer their braille to be posted in tubes (as it used to
be) rather than flat in an envelope.
What is required is reasonable adjustment and, although I appreciate that
Derek might prefer single-sided braille, surely the lack of it doesn't
actually result in inaccessibility.
Alison.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Paul Leake
Sent: 27 November 2015 17:37
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: the wrong question - was braille statements RNIB
sides with the Ombudsman
Thank goodness for common sense! Thank you Richard, I also agree
that RNIB were too quick to undermine the needs of a blind person
which gives a green light for the bank to write off a request
without further thought, not what RNIB should be about! Just
because most ofu may cope with bank statements on double-sided
paper not everyone can particularly if papers are not bound or
treasury-tagged!
Kind regards,
Paul
Twitter: @paulleake1
paul.leake@xxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Godfrey-McKay"
<lists.godfrey-mckay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date sent: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:11:47 -0000
Subject: [access-uk] Re: the wrong question - was braille
statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman
I think that some are not asking the right question here.
As I understand it, the bank has an obligation, under the
Equality Act 2010,
to make a much talked about "reasonable adjustment" to enable a
disabled
person to access its services.
If a service user cannot easily use double-sided Braille, but can
easily
read single-sided Braille, then there must be an argument to
require the
bank to provide single-sided Braille.
It's clearly not technically difficult, and I suspect that much
of the
correspondence on the matter has not been written by people who
have
knowledge of the problem and the ease of providing a solution.
Personally, I was sorry to read the public reply from RNIB, as
their opinion
may be used by the bank as an excuse not to provide the
adjustment
requested.
Richard
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Telephone: 01738-445 880
Mobile: 07791 452 593
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 27 November 2015 16:51
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Because there is no bleed-through on a decent printout, as Paul
Benson put
it, give a sighted person a printout on thin cheapo paper where
the print
from the reverse side showed through the page, and they'd do
something about
it. Though of course in that case, more people would feel the
effect and
complain.
Best,
Clive
If one person calls you an elephant, they may have problems with
their
perception of who you are. If the whole world starts feeding you
buns, get
your trunk out of their way.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 27 November 2015 16:39
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi,
But even people with print can't choose single or double sided,
so why
should you?
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 15:37
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
How do we know just one customer prefers it?
What about those that choose grade 1 Braille?
What about those that have chosen chip and signature!
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Alex Stone
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 3:31 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Steve, even so, just because it can be done, why should either
the bank or
transcriber be forced to do such a thing just because one
customer prefers
it?
On 27/11/2015 15:17, Steve Nutt wrote:
Hi Derek,
While it is not difficult for me to do, it depends on the
transcriber, the
software they use, etc. Also, it would mean another flag that
the
bank
would have to hold on your records.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 14:49
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
But Steve, I thought you agreed that what I was asking for
isn't
difficult to do.
Remember the bank has said if they could do it they would
happily
do it.
So they still have-not said why cannot do it.
and the quote you have seen in another message, was from RNIB
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 2:10 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi,
I happen to agree with that finding.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 10:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi All
Regarding Braille bank statements.
here is more comment from the ombudsman.
Notice that RNIB supports the bank?
Also the bank has still failed to give a reason, as to why
they
cannot do Braille on both sides of paper.
Few weeks ago they were saying if they could, they would
happily
do
it!
Now quote from bank, to the ombudsman.
"As previously discussed to you on the telephone we do not offer
any
customer bank statements single sided. All statements that we
produce
included Braille are sent double sided and this is the way that
statement production system works.
"We have discussed this matter with the Royal Institute of Blind
People and they have provided the below to our Diversity Manager
Dear
Neil, further to your telcon with Steve Tyler this morning,
please
find below quote from Steve in this respect.
Reference: Complaint by Derek Hornby re Duplex Braille
Statements
It is RNIB's view that the business decision taken by HSBC
regarding
the production of bank statements in Duplex form (Braille on
both
sides
of the paper) is a perfectly accessible means of delivering
this
information to regular Braille reading clients. Although Mr
Hornby
may
have preferences around his ideal form of statements, as with
all
business decisions, individual preferences and especially
highly
specific ones cannot be delivered upon when handling mass
produced
or template products. We believe that although he may have
a preference, double sided Braille is a standard and
uniform
means
by which Braille is produced and has no bearing on the actual
accessibility of the product other than a stated preference.
Customers continually express preferences and were there to be
an
overwhelming response, then clearly we would need to review
processes
and would recommend that to HSBC.
As it stands, given the ubiquitous nature of Braille produced in
this
standard fashion, as well as the environmental impact of
reduced
usage
of paper and consequent bulk of Braille, we believe this to be
a
perfectly sound business decision by the bank.
regards
Helena Suprun
PA to Head of Solutions, Strategy and Planning (Steve Tyler)
Royal
National Institute of Blind People (RNIB)
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