Thanks, Amro. So, presumably this is a way of attracting new customers.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Amro Bilal
Sent: 06 July 2020 18:58
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: share in Audible
The key sentence is “if it is your recipient's first time accepting an
audiobook through this feature, it will be free for her/him.”
Amro
On 06/07/2020 06:53 pm, (Redacted sender kevin.lloyd3 for DMARC) wrote:
Hi Alison.** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
There's more information in the help pages on audible but here's the summary:
Send this Book allows you to send the audiobooks in your library to friends
and family. It is free for you to send. And if it is your recipient's first
time accepting an audiobook through this feature, it will be free for
her/him. Members and non-members can redeem titles and once redeemed, can
send that book to others using Send this Book.
https://audible-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/8390/kw/send%2
0book%20
Regards.
Kev
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
CJ & AA MAY
Sent: 06 July 2020 18:03
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: share in Audible
As mentioned elsewhere, I have just subscribed to Audible. I see there is a
"share" option. When I tap on this, I am offered contacts in my e-mail,
Whatsapp etc. Does this mean I can share the book free of charge with another
person, regardless as to whether they are an Audible member?
Alison
-- ---Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Amro Bilal
Sent: 06 July 2020 16:40
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
Well, it hasn’t, and if it did, it would’ve been by extremely negligible
amount not to be noticed by the consumer. We learned that MS has started
investing in improving Narrator, do you think that will increase Windows or
Office prices? And if it does, do you reckon it will be by anything
noticeable? Yes, adding a screen reader to OS costs money, but large
corporations like Apple and MS can easily absorb this cost, and if they were
to pass-on this cost to the end user the increase in the end product would
probably amount to the price of a cup of coffee.
Kind regards
Amro
On 06/07/2020 09:56 am, Steve Nutt wrote:
How can you say introducing access didn't have any impact on the prices?** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
That's just nonsense. It's bound to have had, because people have to
support that infrastructure, and Apple do it very well. You don't expect
they are getting paid nothing to do that, do you?
All the best
Steve
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Amro Bilal
Sent: 05 July 2020 15:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
Hi Steve,
Never the less, the point remains that I don’t pay a penny more than what
able people do so I can use Apple products. Introducing VoiceOver to the
Apple line didn’t have any impact on their products prices. I agree Apple
products are a little more expensive than some other products, but this is
their free choice, and here where one can invoke the free market idea
rightly, and not when we are dealing with essential commodities which screen
readers are one of them IMHO.
Kind regards,
Amro
On 05/07/2020 11:10 am, Steve Nutt wrote:
But remember, you pay more for Apple products in the first place, so** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
basically they have chosen the model that everyone pays for your screen
reader.
You also pay more because their support networks, IE shops, are superb.
All the best
Steve
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
CJ & AA MAY
Sent: 05 July 2020 09:59
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is
absolutely appreciated
Yes, I did think when this thread started and folk pointed out that
research has to be paid for, that there are companies like Apple who
provide free access to most of their products.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Amro Bilal
Sent: 04 July 2020 21:10
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is
absolutely appreciated
Hello Mostafa,
I would’ve participated in this thread more constructively if I knew it
would make the slightest difference. As long as MS aren’t doing their bit
in making Windows accessible like Apple does, we will remain under the
crunch of the mighty Jaws.
Kind regards,
Amro
On 04/07/2020 04:32 pm, Angels Desk (Redacted sender angel238 for
DMARC)
wrote:
The reason you stated justifies the cost of the product. You get** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
what you pay for.
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10
*From: *martin wilsher <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent: *Saturday, July 4, 2020 11:20 AM
*To: *access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *[access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism
and Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is
absolutely appreciated
I pay for jaws because if something goes wrong, you have someone
you can
talk to and say, "is it me, or is the software bust? Reminds me of
a time
when I installed a copy of jaws for that copy to take every other
copy down
with it, nothing would run properly, and jaws was screwed on my
system to
the point I couldn't use any previous version of the screenreader.
I leapt
to system access as an emergency solution and sight and sound
batted on my
behalf with FS who initially denied it was their problem. Turned
out it was
a jaws issue, as a tech at S and s looked at logs of my computer
and saw
where jaws was busting. FS caved in and made the general fix in
six
weeks.-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 04 July 2020 12:15
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
Hi Jackie,
I'll tell you what justifies the price in my opinion.
I had a serious crash issue with Office 365 Outlook and JAWS a few
months
back. I had the same crash with NVDA.
It seemed to be a problem with screen reader hooks in general, but
JAWS came
out with an update a few days later. NVDA I had to wait at least a month.
That's the difference.
What you're paying for is support for the most popular programs,
and to be
frank, I couldn't do without that support for my job. So it really
depends
on priorities of the individual.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
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Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Jackie
Brown
Sent: 03 July 2020 17:09
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
To be fair though, JAWS tends to be discounted at this time of
year, as are
the SMA prices. And if you can't afford JAWS even at the
discounted price,
then you have Narrator and NVDA. I know this is contentious, but
we do
receive PIP to assist with such costs. I know there are charities
who offer
grants, though I appreciate you have to jump through a lot of hoops
to avail
of them. I guess it depends what you consider to be more important
in what
lifestyle choices you make, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
I
sometimes wonder what is being done to JAWS every single year to
justify the
SMA, but it's important to me to use it so I accept that it has to
keep
up-to-date with Microsoft if I want to continue using Windows. For
example,
you won't get away with using Microsoft 365 or Microsoft Edge if
you
continue to cling to an older version of JAWS. That means having
to pay for
the updates, that's just the way it is if you want to shop or bank
online
safely. If nobody paid for JAWS updates, and there were no SMA
pathways,
your computing experience would begin to deteriorate pretty quickly
if you
wanted to keep updating Windows. Yes you could stay put on an old
version
of JAWS running on an old version of Windows, but your options
would
decrease substantially.
If you resent the FS model, learn the Mac and depend solely on
Apple for
your accessibility, thousands of blind people do and love it.
Kind regards,
Jackie Brown
Email: jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of goshawk
on horseback
Sent: 03 July 2020 16:42
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
since the scrapping of window-eyes by FS, I would disagree, as
that's one
choice less now.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie Brown" <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 9:03 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
Hi Steve and DavidJAWS.
I agree with you both. I jump to NVDA and Narrator when I have
to, but I do think JAWS has it when it comes to proofreading and
Braille support.
It's a pointless argument anyway, people have to do what they are
comfortable with, and at least there are more screen reader
choices than there used to be.
Kind regards,
Jackie Brown
Email: jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 03 July 2020 08:51
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism
and Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is
absolutely appreciated Hi David, This is why I agree with you too.
If you are a home user, or hobbyist, then NVDA or Narrator is enough.
But if you need advanced screen reading, then it currently has to
be
What other screen reader for example, offers text analysis? Thistasks.
is crucial to me to make presentable documents.
I agree that NVDA and Narrator far out perform JAWS in aspects
such as responsiveness, but that is not enough for someone in employment.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of David Griffith
Sent: 03 July 2020 00:19
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism
and Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is
absolutely appreciated Whilst I am sympathetic to the frustration
expressed here I believe that I will be a Jaws user for the
foreseeable future. This is because I consider access not just a
matter of principle but of practicality.
I want the best possible access solutions currently available on
my tech so that I can achieve the best standard of productivity
and quality in the admittedly limited hours of work I perform. I
am nearly completely retired now but would still urge anybody in
employment who is dependent on a screenreader to seek the full
range of screen reading assistance available. It is tough enough
competing with sighted colleague to provide best value employee
performance as good as or better than a sighted employee without
sacrificing all the tools at your disposal.
I use not just Jaws but NVDA and Narrator every week in a myriad
of
Unfortunately there are a whole range of situations in which NVDAproduct?
or Narrator just will not cut it and I need to use Jaws. I freely
admit there are occasions that NVDA, and increasingly Narrator,
will in some tasks perform better than Jaws.
This does not gainsay the truth that Jaws, and especially the Jaws
cursor is required in many situations where NVDA and Narrator both
fail completely.
Just this evening I was having to use a m4b to mp3 convertor. This
is completely impossible to use with NVDA and Narrator. Both the
add and convert buttons could only be found by the Jaws cursor.
So to put it bluntly I am not prepared to cripple aspect of my
access in order to satisfy frustrations against FS. Whether FS can
justify all their pricing structures is another matter. I see no
realistic way that they could provide Jaws for free. Whilst they
remain a third party business and not part of mainstream OS
funding I can seen no business model which does not require them
to employ staff to keep their products updated in a constantly
changing OS environment. An old version of Jaws will simply not work
today.
. tiff.
The alternative of using largely unpaid volunteer resources with
a small core of employees to update products is the route
pursued by NVDA, but even here there are costs met by donations
and grants from blindness organisations alongside other grants
from people like Microsoft. There is really no free lunch.
David G.
On 2 Jul 2020, at 22:09, Mostafa Almahdywrote:
<mostafa.almahdy@xxxxxxxxx>
Freedom Scientific is the largest manufacturer that produces
assistive technology solutions worldwide. Nonetheless, it
manipulates this throttled market through base policy. At its
inception, it charges visually impaired clients so high to
qualify them licensed to use Jaws, for certain time. After their
license period has expired, they are required to upgrade, through
paying substantial amount to temporarily use the license again
and after awhile, it eventually expires. You are now trapped in
this vicious cycle. To perpetually use their Jaws, you have got
to pay them money, relentlessly. And, despite what they throw at
you in their unvalued mendings, updates etc, you ought to give
them money, with a smile. Even scripts which are additional
elements destined to enhance performance, are going to cost you a
fortune. Now, the question here shall naturally be, why?
What for do I need to pay all this, to obtain a not so well given
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-People are generically enslaved to this concept. Jaws has** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
somewhat influenced its users to unconsciously pay to keep
upgraded, without asking themselves, um, is it really worth it?
Freedom Scientific takes advantage of its broadly mega
establishment to tremendously dominate more people and trammel them into
the Jaws immense delusion.
I fortuitously, have wholly emancipated myself from this grave deceit.
Why am I need to be infinitely impounded to such capitalistic entity?
Furthermore, by doing so, Freedom Scientific explicitly violates
human rights declaration recognised by United Nations
consignment, which plainly states, that equal access of
information is eminently professed to everyone. Thence, I
mutually urge firm Jaws users and Freedom Scientific staff to
interact with this proposition. I do not attempt here to
politicise the matter. But for certain, this conversation has got
an ethical scope affiliated with it. I am keen to stiffen this
useful discussion and exchange opinions. I personally feel so
comfortable using open source solutions. What about you folks?
Do you feel somewhat compelled to stick to Jaws, despite the
fact, that it costs you more than what it actually deserves? Is
the money you pay worth what Jaws offers? I in this undisclosed
list, have included Freedom Scientific representatives, to hear
their perspective as well. I just hope, not to be shunned,
disposed or affronted based on my sentimental notions. I now look
forward to hearing from people, everywhere across the globe.
Thanks for reading, Mustafa
--
(Seeking knowledge is compulsory from cratle to grave because it
is a shoreless ocean.)
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