[access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA

  • From: "Yusuf" <yusufaosman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:54:01 -0000

Kevin, An apawling situation, I'm not surprised by the responses from either 
the dRC or RNIB. A couple of suggestions.

Do as the DRC suggests and write that letter to Your move, send it recorded 
delivery so that they have to sign for it and state clearly that your in 
discussion with the DRC and other organisations.

Also get in touch with Action for Blind People, as they seem to be a more 
advocating organisation you maybe better off with them.

Guide Dogs may also be able to offer some help, it doesn't sound as if it 
was a specific guide dog issue but its another angle to take.

I'm not surprised that your angry you have a right to be it sounds like 
clear discrimination to me.

Best wishes and keep us informed on how your doing with this.

One final thing, when you right that letter to your move I'd copy their head 
office in on it as well.
Yusuf
P
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kevin and emma" <kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA


> hi all, well i've now contacted the RNIB and the DRC, and frankly i'm
> appalled at the response i got. i've pasted in the replied below along 
> with
> my original description to the DRC as too what happened. the DRC response 
> i
> found disappointing, the RNIB response i found disturbing! and worrying 
> too.
> read on if you wish, it's quite long.
>
> original description of the event:
> What Happened: i am trying to gain employment as an estate agent. now the
> job would involve some travel, conducting viewings of properties etc. i
> contacted Your Move estate agents about 2 months ago to see if they had 
> any
> vacancies. i had a phone call this morning from one of their local offices
> in Southsea near portsmouth, she said her name was jackie (not sure if
> that's the right spelling). she said she'd been passed my CV and asked if 
> i
> was "still looking for work as an estate agent?" i said yes. she said the
> role she was calling about was in their southsea office, so "would i be 
> able
> to get there from locks heathh?" (where i live) i said yes that wasn't a
> problem (local train and bus services are perfect for the route in
> question). i make it a point of sending a covering letter with any job
> application explaining my experience, skills etc, and also my disability,
> with a brief overview of the access to work scheme and what it can 
> provide.
> i asked her if she had my covering letter, she said no she haden't been
> passed that, just my Cv. so i explained my disability (i am registered 
> blind
> and have a guide dog). she'd been quite chatty and sounded enthusiastic 
> upto
> this point. from then on there was a major change in her attitude to me. 
> it
> was like a switch had been pressed and all enthusiasm and interest in me 
> and
> my CV disappeared. she became quieter and very monosylabic from then on. 
> i
> asked her if she'd heard of the access to work scheme, she said she had. 
> but
> i explained it anyway to make sure. i might as well not have bothered, she
> just wasn't interested in what i was saying. she'd already made up her 
> mind
> to reject my cv as soon as i mentioned i had a disability. i can't quote 
> her
> exact wording during the call. but after i'd explained access to work etc,
> she said something like, "well the majority of our office work is computer
> based", so i explained computer access was possible, re screenreaders etc,
> and that in fct being mostly computer based was actually a big advantage 
> for
> a blind person. she then said "we spend a lot of time out of the office
> conducting viewings etc" again i pointed out that the access to work 
> scheme
> included provision for covering travel costs to work and in work for a
> disabled person, and that i might also have access to a support worker to
> help in the office and whilst out of the office too. she then said
> somethihng about there being "no space really to accommodate me" i 
> explained
> adapting the computers for me to use wouldn't take any more space than 
> they
> already did. it seemed to me she was trying to find problems that would 
> stop
> me doing the job, and i think i gave her possible solutions to all of 
> them,
> but she didn't want to discuss any such solutions or adjustments. she then
> said something like " sorry i didn't read your covering letter before
> calling",  she then ended the call by saying roughly "sorry we can't help
> you on this occasion". from what she said throughout the phone call, and 
> the
> questions i asked. my conclusions are: she was contacting me for a 
> specific
> vacancy she had in southsea based purely on the contents of my Cv, e.g.
> skills, experience, (there is no mention in my cv itself of my 
> disability).
> she haden't read my covering letter i sent with my cv which does explain 
> my
> disability. as soon as i explained my disability, she put up barriers and
> wasn't willing to discuss solutions to those barriers/problems. she said
> she'd heard of access to work, based on her attitude i find that hard to
> believe or she'd surely have been much more willing to discuss potential
> problems of the job and there solutions. the problems she did raise e.g.
> travel, using computers etc, weren't valid as access technology makes
> computers accessible, and travel could be covered by ATW. and i didn't
> understand her comment about lack of space to accommodate. her comment 
> about
> "sorry for not reading your covering letter ..." says to me that if she'd
> known i had a disability before hand, she'd never have called me. finally,
> her ending of the call, "sorry we can't help you" ... she never made any
> attempt whatsoever to help me or to overcome the problems i might come
> across.
> to me all this addes up to a clear case of discrimination. no attempt to
> discuss the situation and to find solutions, no sign of "reasonable
> adjustment" and a very clear indication that if she'd known i was disabled
> beforehand, she'd never have contacted me at all. if my applicatoin had 
> ben
> taken further, and it was found taht even with adjustments etc, the job
> wasn't feasible, then i could accept that. what i can't accept is the 
> total
> lack of willingness to even discuss my situation and what could be done to
> make the job possible for me to do. i've spoken to 2 other estate agents 
> in
> the last week whose attitude was totally the opposite and so to me it 
> makes
> the attitude of Your Move unjustified and discriminatory.
>
> DRC response:
> Dear Mr Lyon
>
> Thank you for your email to the Disability Rights Commission (DRC) 
> regarding
> your issue with Your Move.
>
> At the Helpline, we advise on the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) 
> 1995.
>
> Firstly, in order for a person to be classed as having a disability they
> have to meet the definition of the Act. The Act says that a person must 
> have
> a mental or physical impairment which has a substantial, adverse effect on
> their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. The substantial
> effects must also be long term meaning they have lasted 12 months, are
> likely to last for 12 months or for the rest of a person's life. As you 
> have
> said that you are registered blind and have a guide dog, it is more than
> likely that you would meet the definition of disability.
>
> I have read the details you have given in your email and it could be said
> that you have been treated less favorably, it could also be said that 
> direct
> discrimination could have taken place. Direct discrimination occurs when a
> person makes assumptions about a person's disability purely based on the
> fact that they have a disability. It could be said that the lady at Your
> Move assumed you would not be able to do the role of estate agent because
> you are registered blind, she did not consider your own individual
> capabilities and did not look at reasonable adjustments which could have
> been made for you.
>
> Unfortunately, as there was not a particular post that had been advertised
> that you were turned down for it could be difficult to prove that a 
> position
> would have been offered you if you did not have a visual impairment. The
> lady could say that there were no positions vacant.
>
> I would suggest that you write a letter to Your Move and ask for
> justification on the treatment you received and explain that you feel that
> discrimination did take place. If you receive a response you are more than
> welcome to contact the Helpline again to inform us of the response but you
> maybe unable to take any further action as you were not turned down for a
> particular post.
>
> RNIB response:
> Dear Kevin,
>
> Thank you for your enquiry to the Royal National Institute of the Blind
> Helpline.
>
> RNIB does not have anyone who can assist with employment law. I would
> suggest you approach your local Citizens Advice Bureau, as they can
> assist with employment law.
>
> so the DRC don't want to know ( i suspect as adrian mentioned in his post,
> it's not a new area so they arent' interested!), and the RNIB say to go to
> the CAB because they don't advise on employment law! come on, someone tell
> me i'm dreaming here! so it looks like if i want to take this further, i'm
> going to have to take on Your Move on my own, as 2 of the organisations
> you'd expect to back a disabled person up in such a situation, don't want 
> to
> know. maybe i'm just overreacting, but i feel like i was discriminated
> against, and noone seems willing or able to help me. it's no wonder
> companies feel like they can ignore the DDA, it seems they can because the
> organisations that bang on aobut discrimination and equal rights, run for
> cover when they actually have to do anything!  sorry, smile, i'll stop
> ranting now.
> kevin (lord L)
> "Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without
> notice." - will durant
> skype: lordandladyl
> email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Adrian Higginbotham" <adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:50 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA
>
>
> Hi Kevin - employment is section 2 of the DDA, the best thing to do is
> to find the act online and read it for yourself, the trouble with
> interpretations or online articles is that they are always very context
> specific so unless you find a situation exactly like your own.
>
> When you've done that then phone the drc helpline, I found them a bit
> slow and frustrating but useful overall, they take some details and then
> an advisor with expertese in your particular circumstances will call you
> back.  They are unlikely to take the case on, on your behalf unless it
> is very unusual and establishes new case law but they will advice you as
> to the appropriate courses of action.  It's very frustrating and the
> first reaction is to take them straight to the cleaners but you have a
> much stronger case down the line if you can demonstrate that from the
> outset you gave them as much opportunity as possible to reverse their
> decision, justify themselves, develop their reasoning, and quite
> possibly tie a noose for their own knecks.
>
> Adrian Higginbotham
>
>
> Accessibility content manager
>
> British Educational Communications and Technology Agency - BECTA
> Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994.
>
> Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
> BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ=20
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of kevin and emma
> Sent: 20 March 2007 11:00
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] help needed on the DDA
>
> hi all, sorry if this is OT, contact me off list if necessary if it is.
> i'm currently job hunting, and i've just had a phone call from a
> potential employer.  it turned out to be the most blatent case of
> discrimination i've ever come across, if i haden't heard it myself i
> wouldn't have believed it.
> it's an estate agent, an national one. i'm going to right to the branch
> in question, and their head office about it. but i won't to quote any
> relevant passages from the DDA as regards employment of disabled people,
> and was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. also,
> is it worth contacting the DRC or equivalent now, or should i try and
> deal with the potential employer on my own first. any help would be
> appreciated! as i am absolutely blazing mad at what just happened, i'm
> physically shaking as i type i'm so mad! i'm quite prepared to take this
> as far as it needs to go as i feel for a nationwide estate agency chain
> (or any business come to that) to behave like this is a disgrace!
> sorry i'll stop ranting now! smile.
> kevin (lord L)
> "Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without
> notice." - will durant
> skype: lordandladyl
> email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3Dunsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3Dfaq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> 

** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq

Other related posts: