[access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA
- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:38:12 +0100
Hi Kevin,
I completely sympathise with this, this is an appalling situation. Have you
thought about taking it to In Touch? Could be interesting. May not do
anything for you, but it would show Your Move in the light they deserve to
be shown.
All the best
--
Computer Room Services:
the long cane for blind computer users.
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
kevin and emma
Sent: 28 March 2007 10:23
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA
hi all, well i've now contacted the RNIB and the DRC, and frankly i'm
appalled at the response i got. i've pasted in the replied below along with
my original description to the DRC as too what happened. the DRC response i
found disappointing, the RNIB response i found disturbing! and worrying too.
read on if you wish, it's quite long.
original description of the event:
What Happened: i am trying to gain employment as an estate agent. now the
job would involve some travel, conducting viewings of properties etc. i
contacted Your Move estate agents about 2 months ago to see if they had any
vacancies. i had a phone call this morning from one of their local offices
in Southsea near portsmouth, she said her name was jackie (not sure if
that's the right spelling). she said she'd been passed my CV and asked if i
was "still looking for work as an estate agent?" i said yes. she said the
role she was calling about was in their southsea office, so "would i be able
to get there from locks heathh?" (where i live) i said yes that wasn't a
problem (local train and bus services are perfect for the route in
question). i make it a point of sending a covering letter with any job
application explaining my experience, skills etc, and also my disability,
with a brief overview of the access to work scheme and what it can provide.
i asked her if she had my covering letter, she said no she haden't been
passed that, just my Cv. so i explained my disability (i am registered blind
and have a guide dog). she'd been quite chatty and sounded enthusiastic upto
this point. from then on there was a major change in her attitude to me. it
was like a switch had been pressed and all enthusiasm and interest in me and
my CV disappeared. she became quieter and very monosylabic from then on. i
asked her if she'd heard of the access to work scheme, she said she had. but
i explained it anyway to make sure. i might as well not have bothered, she
just wasn't interested in what i was saying. she'd already made up her mind
to reject my cv as soon as i mentioned i had a disability. i can't quote her
exact wording during the call. but after i'd explained access to work etc,
she said something like, "well the majority of our office work is computer
based", so i explained computer access was possible, re screenreaders etc,
and that in fct being mostly computer based was actually a big advantage for
a blind person. she then said "we spend a lot of time out of the office
conducting viewings etc" again i pointed out that the access to work scheme
included provision for covering travel costs to work and in work for a
disabled person, and that i might also have access to a support worker to
help in the office and whilst out of the office too. she then said
somethihng about there being "no space really to accommodate me" i explained
adapting the computers for me to use wouldn't take any more space than they
already did. it seemed to me she was trying to find problems that would stop
me doing the job, and i think i gave her possible solutions to all of them,
but she didn't want to discuss any such solutions or adjustments. she then
said something like " sorry i didn't read your covering letter before
calling", she then ended the call by saying roughly "sorry we can't help
you on this occasion". from what she said throughout the phone call, and the
questions i asked. my conclusions are: she was contacting me for a specific
vacancy she had in southsea based purely on the contents of my Cv, e.g.
skills, experience, (there is no mention in my cv itself of my disability).
she haden't read my covering letter i sent with my cv which does explain my
disability. as soon as i explained my disability, she put up barriers and
wasn't willing to discuss solutions to those barriers/problems. she said
she'd heard of access to work, based on her attitude i find that hard to
believe or she'd surely have been much more willing to discuss potential
problems of the job and there solutions. the problems she did raise e.g.
travel, using computers etc, weren't valid as access technology makes
computers accessible, and travel could be covered by ATW. and i didn't
understand her comment about lack of space to accommodate. her comment about
"sorry for not reading your covering letter ..." says to me that if she'd
known i had a disability before hand, she'd never have called me. finally,
her ending of the call, "sorry we can't help you" ... she never made any
attempt whatsoever to help me or to overcome the problems i might come
across.
to me all this addes up to a clear case of discrimination. no attempt to
discuss the situation and to find solutions, no sign of "reasonable
adjustment" and a very clear indication that if she'd known i was disabled
beforehand, she'd never have contacted me at all. if my applicatoin had ben
taken further, and it was found taht even with adjustments etc, the job
wasn't feasible, then i could accept that. what i can't accept is the total
lack of willingness to even discuss my situation and what could be done to
make the job possible for me to do. i've spoken to 2 other estate agents in
the last week whose attitude was totally the opposite and so to me it makes
the attitude of Your Move unjustified and discriminatory.
DRC response:
Dear Mr Lyon
Thank you for your email to the Disability Rights Commission (DRC) regarding
your issue with Your Move.
At the Helpline, we advise on the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) 1995.
Firstly, in order for a person to be classed as having a disability they
have to meet the definition of the Act. The Act says that a person must have
a mental or physical impairment which has a substantial, adverse effect on
their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. The substantial
effects must also be long term meaning they have lasted 12 months, are
likely to last for 12 months or for the rest of a person's life. As you have
said that you are registered blind and have a guide dog, it is more than
likely that you would meet the definition of disability.
I have read the details you have given in your email and it could be said
that you have been treated less favorably, it could also be said that direct
discrimination could have taken place. Direct discrimination occurs when a
person makes assumptions about a person's disability purely based on the
fact that they have a disability. It could be said that the lady at Your
Move assumed you would not be able to do the role of estate agent because
you are registered blind, she did not consider your own individual
capabilities and did not look at reasonable adjustments which could have
been made for you.
Unfortunately, as there was not a particular post that had been advertised
that you were turned down for it could be difficult to prove that a position
would have been offered you if you did not have a visual impairment. The
lady could say that there were no positions vacant.
I would suggest that you write a letter to Your Move and ask for
justification on the treatment you received and explain that you feel that
discrimination did take place. If you receive a response you are more than
welcome to contact the Helpline again to inform us of the response but you
maybe unable to take any further action as you were not turned down for a
particular post.
RNIB response:
Dear Kevin,
Thank you for your enquiry to the Royal National Institute of the Blind
Helpline.
RNIB does not have anyone who can assist with employment law. I would
suggest you approach your local Citizens Advice Bureau, as they can assist
with employment law.
so the DRC don't want to know ( i suspect as adrian mentioned in his post,
it's not a new area so they arent' interested!), and the RNIB say to go to
the CAB because they don't advise on employment law! come on, someone tell
me i'm dreaming here! so it looks like if i want to take this further, i'm
going to have to take on Your Move on my own, as 2 of the organisations
you'd expect to back a disabled person up in such a situation, don't want to
know. maybe i'm just overreacting, but i feel like i was discriminated
against, and noone seems willing or able to help me. it's no wonder
companies feel like they can ignore the DDA, it seems they can because the
organisations that bang on aobut discrimination and equal rights, run for
cover when they actually have to do anything! sorry, smile, i'll stop
ranting now.
kevin (lord L)
"Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without
notice." - will durant
skype: lordandladyl
email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Higginbotham" <adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:50 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA
Hi Kevin - employment is section 2 of the DDA, the best thing to do is
to find the act online and read it for yourself, the trouble with
interpretations or online articles is that they are always very context
specific so unless you find a situation exactly like your own.
When you've done that then phone the drc helpline, I found them a bit
slow and frustrating but useful overall, they take some details and then
an advisor with expertese in your particular circumstances will call you
back. They are unlikely to take the case on, on your behalf unless it
is very unusual and establishes new case law but they will advice you as
to the appropriate courses of action. It's very frustrating and the
first reaction is to take them straight to the cleaners but you have a
much stronger case down the line if you can demonstrate that from the
outset you gave them as much opportunity as possible to reverse their
decision, justify themselves, develop their reasoning, and quite
possibly tie a noose for their own knecks.
Adrian Higginbotham
Accessibility content manager
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency - BECTA
Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994.
Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ=20
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of kevin and emma
Sent: 20 March 2007 11:00
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] help needed on the DDA
hi all, sorry if this is OT, contact me off list if necessary if it is.
i'm currently job hunting, and i've just had a phone call from a
potential employer. it turned out to be the most blatent case of
discrimination i've ever come across, if i haden't heard it myself i
wouldn't have believed it.
it's an estate agent, an national one. i'm going to right to the branch
in question, and their head office about it. but i won't to quote any
relevant passages from the DDA as regards employment of disabled people,
and was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. also,
is it worth contacting the DRC or equivalent now, or should i try and
deal with the potential employer on my own first. any help would be
appreciated! as i am absolutely blazing mad at what just happened, i'm
physically shaking as i type i'm so mad! i'm quite prepared to take this
as far as it needs to go as i feel for a nationwide estate agency chain
(or any business come to that) to behave like this is a disgrace!
sorry i'll stop ranting now! smile.
kevin (lord L)
"Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without
notice." - will durant
skype: lordandladyl
email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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