[access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA
- From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:07:16 +0100
I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but my son is a Manager of
one of Your Move's branches.
That said, I know for sure that he would not treat you in
this way - or I'd give him such a hiding he'd remember it
when he's a grandfather with one tooth.
However, what is perhaps an important point to bear in mind
in this case, is that Your Move is actually a franchise
operation.
Consequently you would probably end up having to take issue
with those who own the franchise for that branch or group of
branches.
Of course this does not get away from the fact that the main
franchisee of Your Move should be concerned with the matter,
and may indeed be liable in law.
George.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of kevin and emma
Sent: 28 March 2007 10:23
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA
hi all, well i've now contacted the RNIB and the DRC, and
frankly i'm
appalled at the response i got. i've pasted in the replied
below along with
my original description to the DRC as too what happened. the
DRC response i
found disappointing, the RNIB response i found disturbing!
and worrying too.
read on if you wish, it's quite long.
original description of the event:
What Happened: i am trying to gain employment as an estate
agent. now the
job would involve some travel, conducting viewings of
properties etc. i
contacted Your Move estate agents about 2 months ago to see
if they had any
vacancies. i had a phone call this morning from one of their
local offices
in Southsea near portsmouth, she said her name was jackie
(not sure if
that's the right spelling). she said she'd been passed my CV
and asked if i
was "still looking for work as an estate agent?" i said yes.
she said the
role she was calling about was in their southsea office, so
"would i be able
to get there from locks heathh?" (where i live) i said yes
that wasn't a
problem (local train and bus services are perfect for the
route in
question). i make it a point of sending a covering letter
with any job
application explaining my experience, skills etc, and also
my disability,
with a brief overview of the access to work scheme and what
it can provide.
i asked her if she had my covering letter, she said no she
haden't been
passed that, just my Cv. so i explained my disability (i am
registered blind
and have a guide dog). she'd been quite chatty and sounded
enthusiastic upto
this point. from then on there was a major change in her
attitude to me. it
was like a switch had been pressed and all enthusiasm and
interest in me and
my CV disappeared. she became quieter and very monosylabic
from then on. i
asked her if she'd heard of the access to work scheme, she
said she had. but
i explained it anyway to make sure. i might as well not have
bothered, she
just wasn't interested in what i was saying. she'd already
made up her mind
to reject my cv as soon as i mentioned i had a disability. i
can't quote her
exact wording during the call. but after i'd explained
access to work etc,
she said something like, "well the majority of our office
work is computer
based", so i explained computer access was possible, re
screenreaders etc,
and that in fct being mostly computer based was actually a
big advantage for
a blind person. she then said "we spend a lot of time out of
the office
conducting viewings etc" again i pointed out that the access
to work scheme
included provision for covering travel costs to work and in
work for a
disabled person, and that i might also have access to a
support worker to
help in the office and whilst out of the office too. she
then said
somethihng about there being "no space really to accommodate
me" i explained
adapting the computers for me to use wouldn't take any more
space than they
already did. it seemed to me she was trying to find problems
that would stop
me doing the job, and i think i gave her possible solutions
to all of them,
but she didn't want to discuss any such solutions or
adjustments. she then
said something like " sorry i didn't read your covering
letter before
calling", she then ended the call by saying roughly "sorry
we can't help
you on this occasion". from what she said throughout the
phone call, and the
questions i asked. my conclusions are: she was contacting me
for a specific
vacancy she had in southsea based purely on the contents of
my Cv, e.g.
skills, experience, (there is no mention in my cv itself of
my disability).
she haden't read my covering letter i sent with my cv which
does explain my
disability. as soon as i explained my disability, she put up
barriers and
wasn't willing to discuss solutions to those
barriers/problems. she said
she'd heard of access to work, based on her attitude i find
that hard to
believe or she'd surely have been much more willing to
discuss potential
problems of the job and there solutions. the problems she
did raise e.g.
travel, using computers etc, weren't valid as access
technology makes
computers accessible, and travel could be covered by ATW.
and i didn't
understand her comment about lack of space to accommodate.
her comment about
"sorry for not reading your covering letter ..." says to me
that if she'd
known i had a disability before hand, she'd never have
called me. finally,
her ending of the call, "sorry we can't help you" ... she
never made any
attempt whatsoever to help me or to overcome the problems i
might come
across.
to me all this addes up to a clear case of discrimination.
no attempt to
discuss the situation and to find solutions, no sign of
"reasonable
adjustment" and a very clear indication that if she'd known
i was disabled
beforehand, she'd never have contacted me at all. if my
applicatoin had ben
taken further, and it was found taht even with adjustments
etc, the job
wasn't feasible, then i could accept that. what i can't
accept is the total
lack of willingness to even discuss my situation and what
could be done to
make the job possible for me to do. i've spoken to 2 other
estate agents in
the last week whose attitude was totally the opposite and so
to me it makes
the attitude of Your Move unjustified and discriminatory.
DRC response:
Dear Mr Lyon
Thank you for your email to the Disability Rights Commission
(DRC) regarding
your issue with Your Move.
At the Helpline, we advise on the Disability Discrimination
Act (DDA) 1995.
Firstly, in order for a person to be classed as having a
disability they
have to meet the definition of the Act. The Act says that a
person must have
a mental or physical impairment which has a substantial,
adverse effect on
their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. The
substantial
effects must also be long term meaning they have lasted 12
months, are
likely to last for 12 months or for the rest of a person's
life. As you have
said that you are registered blind and have a guide dog, it
is more than
likely that you would meet the definition of disability.
I have read the details you have given in your email and it
could be said
that you have been treated less favorably, it could also be
said that direct
discrimination could have taken place. Direct discrimination
occurs when a
person makes assumptions about a person's disability purely
based on the
fact that they have a disability. It could be said that the
lady at Your
Move assumed you would not be able to do the role of estate
agent because
you are registered blind, she did not consider your own
individual
capabilities and did not look at reasonable adjustments
which could have
been made for you.
Unfortunately, as there was not a particular post that had
been advertised
that you were turned down for it could be difficult to prove
that a position
would have been offered you if you did not have a visual
impairment. The
lady could say that there were no positions vacant.
I would suggest that you write a letter to Your Move and ask
for
justification on the treatment you received and explain that
you feel that
discrimination did take place. If you receive a response you
are more than
welcome to contact the Helpline again to inform us of the
response but you
maybe unable to take any further action as you were not
turned down for a
particular post.
RNIB response:
Dear Kevin,
Thank you for your enquiry to the Royal National Institute
of the Blind
Helpline.
RNIB does not have anyone who can assist with employment
law. I would
suggest you approach your local Citizens Advice Bureau, as
they can
assist with employment law.
so the DRC don't want to know ( i suspect as adrian
mentioned in his post,
it's not a new area so they arent' interested!), and the
RNIB say to go to
the CAB because they don't advise on employment law! come
on, someone tell
me i'm dreaming here! so it looks like if i want to take
this further, i'm
going to have to take on Your Move on my own, as 2 of the
organisations
you'd expect to back a disabled person up in such a
situation, don't want to
know. maybe i'm just overreacting, but i feel like i was
discriminated
against, and noone seems willing or able to help me. it's no
wonder
companies feel like they can ignore the DDA, it seems they
can because the
organisations that bang on aobut discrimination and equal
rights, run for
cover when they actually have to do anything! sorry, smile,
i'll stop
ranting now.
kevin (lord L)
"Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to
change without
notice." - will durant
skype: lordandladyl
email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Adrian Higginbotham"
<adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:50 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: help needed on the DDA
Hi Kevin - employment is section 2 of the DDA, the best
thing to do is
to find the act online and read it for yourself, the trouble
with
interpretations or online articles is that they are always
very context
specific so unless you find a situation exactly like your
own.
When you've done that then phone the drc helpline, I found
them a bit
slow and frustrating but useful overall, they take some
details and then
an advisor with expertese in your particular circumstances
will call you
back. They are unlikely to take the case on, on your behalf
unless it
is very unusual and establishes new case law but they will
advice you as
to the appropriate courses of action. It's very frustrating
and the
first reaction is to take them straight to the cleaners but
you have a
much stronger case down the line if you can demonstrate that
from the
outset you gave them as much opportunity as possible to
reverse their
decision, justify themselves, develop their reasoning, and
quite
possibly tie a noose for their own knecks.
Adrian Higginbotham
Accessibility content manager
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency -
BECTA
Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard
02476-416994.
Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4
7JJ=3D20
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of kevin and emma
Sent: 20 March 2007 11:00
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] help needed on the DDA
hi all, sorry if this is OT, contact me off list if
necessary if it is.
i'm currently job hunting, and i've just had a phone call
from a
potential employer. it turned out to be the most blatent
case of
discrimination i've ever come across, if i haden't heard it
myself i
wouldn't have believed it.
it's an estate agent, an national one. i'm going to right to
the branch
in question, and their head office about it. but i won't to
quote any
relevant passages from the DDA as regards employment of
disabled people,
and was wondering if anyone could point me in the right
direction. also,
is it worth contacting the DRC or equivalent now, or should
i try and
deal with the potential employer on my own first. any help
would be
appreciated! as i am absolutely blazing mad at what just
happened, i'm
physically shaking as i type i'm so mad! i'm quite prepared
to take this
as far as it needs to go as i feel for a nationwide estate
agency chain
(or any business come to that) to behave like this is a
disgrace!
sorry i'll stop ranting now! smile.
kevin (lord L)
"Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to
change without
notice." - will durant
skype: lordandladyl
email/msn: kream@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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