[access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion

  • From: Saqib Hussain <saqibh23@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:39:32 +0100

Hi. I don't like talking to my phone in public either. I don't mind
dictating a message when I'm on my own but hate the idea of doing it
in front of family and friend or even onn a bus. Bluetooth keyboards
are ok if you want to compose a lengthy e-mail but since Fleksi has
burst on to the market! I don't require a Bluetooth keyboard either.
I've always thought that it sort of defeats the object of using a
touch screen phone when you use a Bluetooth Keyboard for text
messages.

On 03/08/2012, Iain Lackie <ilackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> You will recall I'm sure the Guide Cats series of fundraising CDs from BCAB.
>
> As the apps are named after a guide dog, BCAB should produce a Guide Cat
> version.
>
>
>
> Iain
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eleanor Burke
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:30 AM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>
> What is a guide cat version?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Moore" <moore.c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:21 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>
>
>>I wonder if BCAB are working on a guide cat version :p
>> On 3 Aug 2012, at 09:17, Jackie Cairns <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah but who cares?  Why have a flaming dog barking at all?  Do we come
>>> across as that pathetic or what?  Sorry but this kind of patronising
>>> stuff
>>> really gets my goat! (smile).
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>> Jackie Cairns
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>>>
>>> Of
>>> Steve Nutt
>>> Sent: 02 August 2012 14:54
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> It's because Georgie is named after Margaret, Roger Wilson-Hind's wife's
>>> first guide dog.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> --
>>> Computer Room Services
>>> 77 Exeter Close
>>> Stevenage
>>> Hertfordshire
>>> SG1 4PW
>>> Tel:  01438-742286
>>> Mob: 07956334938
>>> Fax: 01438-759589
>>> Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>>>
>>> Of
>>> Eleanor Burke
>>> Sent: 02 August 2012 13:05
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>>
>>> I wouldn't mind but my guide dogs, currently Neela, does not bark *smile*
>>>
>>> so
>>>
>>> why the barking?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jackie Cairns" <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:17 AM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Mo
>>>>
>>>> I read your very interesting message on the BCAB list which Colin
>>>> Howard
>>>> posted, presumably on your behalf.
>>>>
>>>> I'll say here what I said there.  Personally I feel it is reinventing
>>>> the
>>>> wheel.  I think it is taking advantage of those who perhaps haven't had
>>>> the
>>>> opportunity to really try out Android or Apple to see whether they can
>>>> really master those operating systems.  But, as you say, time will
>>>> tell.
>>>>
>>>> I'm afraid that the barking made me cringe.  Do we really have to have
>>>> these
>>>> stupid sounds incorporated into "blind" products?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jackie Cairns
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>> Mobeen Iqbal
>>>> Sent: 02 August 2012 00:02
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>>>
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> The georgie developers have finally seen fit to provide a trial on the
>>>> google play store, all be it a 14 day trial. I have included a link
>>>> below,
>>>> as well as my initial findings. The following is just my opinion and i
>>>> do
>>>> not intend to start a debate on list, but it would be interesting to
>>>> see
>>>> what others think.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.screenreader.Georgie&featu
>>>> re=search_result
>>>>
>>>> Main app interface: the first criticism i have is the fact that all
>>>> navigation has to be acomplished via a touch screen. Trying on a
>>>> samsung
>>>> galaxy pro, i could not click any of the controls via the keyboard even
>>>> though they are recognised as buttons. I could also not dial a phone
>>>> number
>>>> via the keyboard, something i was very very surprised at!
>>>> something so simple that's been around for years has been over looked?
>>>> this is probably because you have to hover over each item on the screen
>>>> with
>>>> your finger. on to my next point. it took me a while to figure out that
>>>> you
>>>> have to hover over a certain icon for 2 seconds or more until a tone is
>>>> heard, then lift your finger to activate it. being used to the double
>>>> tap
>>>> system normally used in android, this came as a little qwerk i could've
>>>> done
>>>> with out, though i can see the logic behind it i guess.
>>>> The logic being cut out the need to tap the icon twice and risk hitting
>>>> another icon while you're at it. Also, i would've liked the ability to
>>>> turn
>>>> off the dog barking sound when the app is launched, and every time you
>>>> return to the home screen from outside the app. nothing against guide
>>>> dogs,
>>>> but it could be a bit of an embarrassment in public places!
>>>> Also, my phone really started lagging, something its never done with
>>>> other
>>>> applications no matter how many i've had installed at any one time.
>>>> while
>>>> i'm writing this, the phone's completely crashed, i'll go on to the
>>>> apps
>>>> when it reboots.
>>>>
>>>> On to the apps:
>>>>
>>>> Now my battery's back in and the thing's booted, by default, you can
>>>> try
>>>> out all the apps in the trial. i liked the fact you can adjust screen
>>>> contrast/colours, and also the simplicity of the interface. there needs
>>>> to be more user input in to what can be configured/added for the price,
>>>> i can see this being aimed at a minority market relating specifically
>>>> to
>>>> the elderly or motor impaired.
>>>>
>>>> I did not like the fact that the volume rocker is taken over by the
>>>> software. there are meant to be 3 pages, each page containing the
>>>> various apps in various catagories. The volume rocker, instead of
>>>> allowing you to alter the volume of the app in realtime cycles through
>>>> the various pages. it also appears to unlock the phone when its been
>>>> locked, something which i wasn't too impressed with. on android, its
>>>> standard practis that all buttons are locked and the power button plus
>>>> jesture is used to unlock. page1 has your standard apps, messaging
>>>> dialer etc, page 2 goes on to OCR, colour recognition etc, page 3 is
>>>> thankfully nothing rood, its your lifestile apps containing twitter,
>>>> audio book services, talking newspapers etc. I would've apreciated it
>>>> if
>>>> the developers had enabled scroling so you could scrole to page 2/3, or
>>>> again provided a setting to switch between various modes for various
>>>> functions i.e the ability to turn things on and off, or use alternative
>>>> jestures for commands.
>>>>
>>>> I am going to be using the software over the next 2 weeks, so may post
>>>> further findings. Also if people request, i may consider doing an audio
>>>> demo all be it opinionated giving each app a chance, to save people
>>>> installing it. I would also have liked to see tighter integration with
>>>> google maps. At the moment, yes you can find out where your nearest bus
>>>> stop is, taxi information, but you don't appear to be able to send
>>>> these
>>>> to google maps to navigate to the destination in mind.
>>>>
>>>> The voice applications also appear, or may rely on the internet. I
>>>> haven't tested the application offline yet with no internet connection,
>>>> but suspect that because of past experience, the phone will be sending
>>>> what ever you say, dictated text messages, numbers, etc to google's
>>>> servers then back to your phone. Any android user using this app may
>>>> wish they were on some kind of data plan if this is the case.
>>>>
>>>> I have also tried the colour recogniser application. ironically, a
>>>> freely available talking colour application from the android market,
>>>> Colour ID,  produced better results than their app! Their app just
>>>> stated my teashirt colour as black, the colour ID app was kind enough
>>>> to
>>>> be more specific and tell me that it was brownish black, and that the
>>>> colour of my door was grey.
>>>>
>>>> The OCR app appeared to be doing something, though it requires the user
>>>> to have the phone level, i.e as if resting flat on a desk before it'll
>>>> scan. this could proove to be an issue if reading a sign/business
>>>> information that isn't necessarily on a flat surface. oh dear, where's
>>>> the gents? i'm getting desperate now!
>>>>
>>>> You can configure settings remotely for georgie via the web, or sight
>>>> and sound can do this for you. i'm not comfortable with this approach.
>>>> I'd like to know how secure the remote access app used is? is it
>>>> encrypted? how safe is user data? Privacy is at risk, what if they can
>>>> read your text messages? one user complained that sight and sound or
>>>> someone sent him an unsolicited text message because he posted a bad
>>>> review! this could be a error/over reaction or mistake  on his part,
>>>> but? i've installed this on a handset i'm not bothered about but i'd be
>>>> hesitant to install this on a handset i'm using for daily use.
>>>>
>>>> I would've liked to see inclusion of an email application, as well as a
>>>> web browser of some kind. georgie at present won't support this at
>>>> present so you'd have to use talkback to surf the web.
>>>>
>>>> I also couldn't find an option to access the rest of the phone's
>>>> settings, though i haven't customised it or atempted to unlock advanced
>>>> settings if any are available. apparently you can control what the user
>>>> can do on the phone and provide/limit access to certain functions, so
>>>> we'll see if in the next few days i unlock this supposed functionality.
>>>> An option to access the android market or the app draw would've been
>>>> nice, though again this doesn't appear to be their aim. their aim
>>>> appears to be make the phone as simple as possible for a basic user,
>>>> and
>>>> that's it. for a hefty price tag! The app also froze, and i received a
>>>> force close message on screen informing me that georgie had terminated.
>>>> i then had to reactivate it via my home button. that, by the way was
>>>> when i tried to access the georgie news option. this option is meant to
>>>> provide you with the latest updates from the world of georgie, i have
>>>> visions of them providing georgie with his own personal blog! there are
>>>> after all pages on facebook for pets. nothing wrong with that of
>>>> course... but? anyway back to the point.
>>>>
>>>> And now on to my final point. the contacts app, call/phone app,
>>>> messaging app, colour recogniser app, and even the OCR app using google
>>>> goggles all have free alternatives. Google maps are a lot better now
>>>> and
>>>> its becoming easier to find your location, to navigate to places, to
>>>> find local places of interest, and its all free! even if you do
>>>> pourchase mobile accessibility, at least you can use it outside its own
>>>> homescreen if you wish! What would then prompt me to buy this. I would
>>>> buy it if i had a really basic android user in mind, though i'd first
>>>> try my very hardest to go the free/lower cost  root not because i'm
>>>> stingy, but a lot of the time people don't have money to burn and also
>>>> there are apps out there that do the job. the eyes free shell home
>>>> screen is perfectly customisable and allows you to make things as
>>>> simple
>>>> as they could be for someone by adding/removing the apps the user has
>>>> access to. Mobile accessibility is basic enough for most people. Also,
>>>> if my client just wanted a basic phone, basic second hand and brand new
>>>> nokia symbian phones abound on the internet. the haven phone could also
>>>> be imported to the UK, and i saw a phone that spoke the numbers dialed
>>>> for £15 in tesco the other day. The only reason i would personally
>>>> spend
>>>> any money on this application is the OCR capability, and possibly the
>>>> audio book/talking newspaper ability though at that price, do we get a
>>>> free subscription to the services in question? perhaps we should?
>>>>
>>>> the pricing model is also unclear. they state that £150 will get you
>>>> the
>>>> default apps. now as far as i know, that's just the basic apps, dialer,
>>>> messaging, contacts, georgie news and help, the phone dialer, and the
>>>> call log. mobile accessibility offers all this and more for almost a
>>>> third of the price! yes MA isn't perfect but that's not the point, who
>>>> is? £25 extra each for the lifestile and communications apps doesn't
>>>> net
>>>> you much. the audio books app, the camera app, again a free alternative
>>>> available, OCR, tweet by voice, ask any question by voice anyone ever
>>>> heard of freely available jeanie? talking newspapers, podcasts, and
>>>> lets
>>>> not forget the amazing voice blog. If anyone wants to hear me singing
>>>> in
>>>> the shower, please let me know! the potential is amazing isn't it? the
>>>> sarcasm is partly intentional, sorry i'll stop it now...
>>>>
>>>> So, from this hotchpotch email, a conclusion: the app is very over
>>>> priced, even code factory who i expected to charge a lot more for their
>>>> app haven't charged much at all, its even available stripped down in
>>>> the
>>>> US for free. If users have free alternatives and are only paying for
>>>> simplicity which can be achieved with selection of a few choice
>>>> free/low
>>>> paid apps, what will compell people to buy this? now if they'd included
>>>> a turn by turn navigation aid like wayfinder for symbian if anyone
>>>> remembers that, that would've impressed me. I really hope that the
>>>> company does well, though there's still a long way to go. I hope it
>>>> does
>>>> not go the same way as thunder i.e get knocked out by an open source,
>>>> free!  effort like NVDA. I never really managed to achieve much with
>>>> the
>>>> thunder screen reader, it was rather embarrassing when atempting to
>>>> demo
>>>> it as part of training a few years ago it kept crashing. we couldn't
>>>> even get it to read out word documents or the web in a satisfactory
>>>> manner.
>>>>
>>>> As i have already said the opinions i express above are just based on
>>>> early findings. A lot could change over the next 2 weeks. I may end up
>>>> loving? georgie, though i doubt i'll be paying for it. If i've been
>>>> harsh on the developers, it wasn't intentional. the georgie app only
>>>> has
>>>> a 2.2 star rating on the play store, and the majority of the reviews
>>>> are
>>>> from those that are experiencing frustration using the application.
>>>> some
>>>> can't get it to work though this could be user error. i wonder how many
>>>> phones they tested this on?
>>>>
>>>> From a business standpoint, if you set the right price people will buy
>>>> your product, set it too high and they'll turn to other sollutions.
>>>> £300
>>>> with a handset included? a Nokia C5 with talks costs £100, a basic
>>>> handset like the sony experia pro with icecream sandwitch which is
>>>> totally accessible would only cost £180 at the most.
>>>>
>>>> finally, i'd like to round things off by quoting a comment from someone
>>>> called justin on the eyes-free list with which i agree. i hope you
>>>> don't
>>>> mind me quoting you justin, though i don't know you personally.
>>>>
>>>> Justin <justinmacleod@xxxxxxxxxxx> Aug 01 10:06PM +0100
>>>>
>>>> That's what I think is so scandalous. They are indeed targeting older
>>>> people
>>>> and those who are less up to speed with computers, those who don't know
>>>> better or those that can't, for whatever reason, cope with the free,
>>>> cheeper
>>>> alternative that actually does more. Why should they have to pay more
>>>> for
>>>> less?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it would be great to hear people's experiences. If i'm wrong
>>>> about anything in this email, i'll gladly stand corrected and i'm still
>>>> giving georgie a fair chance. People are also welcome to write to me
>>>> off
>>>> list,
>>>>
>>>> mobeeniqbal@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> is where you'll find me. Its taken the best part of 2 hours to write
>>>> this, anyone for a cup of tea?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for reading,
>>>>
>>>> Mo.
>>>>
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>>>
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>
>
>
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-- 
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