What is a guide cat version?----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Moore" <moore.c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:21 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
I wonder if BCAB are working on a guide cat version :pOn 3 Aug 2012, at 09:17, Jackie Cairns <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Yeah but who cares? Why have a flaming dog barking at all? Do we comeacross as that pathetic or what? Sorry but this kind of patronising stuffreally gets my goat! (smile). Kind Regards, Jackie Cairns -----Original Message-----From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf OfSteve Nutt Sent: 02 August 2012 14:54 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion Hi, It's because Georgie is named after Margaret, Roger Wilson-Hind's wife's first guide dog. All the best Steve -- Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW Tel: 01438-742286 Mob: 07956334938 Fax: 01438-759589 Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message-----From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf OfEleanor Burke Sent: 02 August 2012 13:05 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinionI wouldn't mind but my guide dogs, currently Neela, does not bark *smile* sowhy the barking? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Cairns" <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:17 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinionHi Mo I read your very interesting message on the BCAB list which Colin Howard posted, presumably on your behalf.I'll say here what I said there. Personally I feel it is reinventing thewheel. I think it is taking advantage of those who perhaps haven't had the opportunity to really try out Android or Apple to see whether they can really master those operating systems. But, as you say, time will tell. I'm afraid that the barking made me cringe. Do we really have to have these stupid sounds incorporated into "blind" products? Kind Regards, Jackie Cairns -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mobeen Iqbal Sent: 02 August 2012 00:02 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] georgie trial now available, initial opinion Hi. The georgie developers have finally seen fit to provide a trial on thegoogle play store, all be it a 14 day trial. I have included a link below, as well as my initial findings. The following is just my opinion and i donot intend to start a debate on list, but it would be interesting to see what others think.https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.screenreader.Georgie&feature=search_result Main app interface: the first criticism i have is the fact that all navigation has to be acomplished via a touch screen. Trying on a samsung galaxy pro, i could not click any of the controls via the keyboard even though they are recognised as buttons. I could also not dial a phone number via the keyboard, something i was very very surprised at! something so simple that's been around for years has been over looked? this is probably because you have to hover over each item on the screen with your finger. on to my next point. it took me a while to figure out that you have to hover over a certain icon for 2 seconds or more until a tone isheard, then lift your finger to activate it. being used to the double tapsystem normally used in android, this came as a little qwerk i could've done with out, though i can see the logic behind it i guess. The logic being cut out the need to tap the icon twice and risk hitting another icon while you're at it. Also, i would've liked the ability to turn off the dog barking sound when the app is launched, and every time you return to the home screen from outside the app. nothing against guide dogs, but it could be a bit of an embarrassment in public places!Also, my phone really started lagging, something its never done with other applications no matter how many i've had installed at any one time. whilei'm writing this, the phone's completely crashed, i'll go on to the apps when it reboots. On to the apps: Now my battery's back in and the thing's booted, by default, you can try out all the apps in the trial. i liked the fact you can adjust screen contrast/colours, and also the simplicity of the interface. there needs to be more user input in to what can be configured/added for the price, i can see this being aimed at a minority market relating specifically to the elderly or motor impaired. I did not like the fact that the volume rocker is taken over by the software. there are meant to be 3 pages, each page containing the various apps in various catagories. The volume rocker, instead of allowing you to alter the volume of the app in realtime cycles through the various pages. it also appears to unlock the phone when its been locked, something which i wasn't too impressed with. on android, its standard practis that all buttons are locked and the power button plus jesture is used to unlock. page1 has your standard apps, messaging dialer etc, page 2 goes on to OCR, colour recognition etc, page 3 is thankfully nothing rood, its your lifestile apps containing twitter, audio book services, talking newspapers etc. I would've apreciated it if the developers had enabled scroling so you could scrole to page 2/3, or again provided a setting to switch between various modes for various functions i.e the ability to turn things on and off, or use alternative jestures for commands. I am going to be using the software over the next 2 weeks, so may post further findings. Also if people request, i may consider doing an audio demo all be it opinionated giving each app a chance, to save people installing it. I would also have liked to see tighter integration with google maps. At the moment, yes you can find out where your nearest bus stop is, taxi information, but you don't appear to be able to send these to google maps to navigate to the destination in mind. The voice applications also appear, or may rely on the internet. I haven't tested the application offline yet with no internet connection, but suspect that because of past experience, the phone will be sending what ever you say, dictated text messages, numbers, etc to google's servers then back to your phone. Any android user using this app may wish they were on some kind of data plan if this is the case. I have also tried the colour recogniser application. ironically, a freely available talking colour application from the android market, Colour ID, produced better results than their app! Their app just stated my teashirt colour as black, the colour ID app was kind enough to be more specific and tell me that it was brownish black, and that the colour of my door was grey. The OCR app appeared to be doing something, though it requires the user to have the phone level, i.e as if resting flat on a desk before it'll scan. this could proove to be an issue if reading a sign/business information that isn't necessarily on a flat surface. oh dear, where's the gents? i'm getting desperate now! You can configure settings remotely for georgie via the web, or sight and sound can do this for you. i'm not comfortable with this approach. I'd like to know how secure the remote access app used is? is it encrypted? how safe is user data? Privacy is at risk, what if they can read your text messages? one user complained that sight and sound or someone sent him an unsolicited text message because he posted a bad review! this could be a error/over reaction or mistake on his part, but? i've installed this on a handset i'm not bothered about but i'd be hesitant to install this on a handset i'm using for daily use. I would've liked to see inclusion of an email application, as well as a web browser of some kind. georgie at present won't support this at present so you'd have to use talkback to surf the web. I also couldn't find an option to access the rest of the phone's settings, though i haven't customised it or atempted to unlock advanced settings if any are available. apparently you can control what the user can do on the phone and provide/limit access to certain functions, so we'll see if in the next few days i unlock this supposed functionality. An option to access the android market or the app draw would've been nice, though again this doesn't appear to be their aim. their aim appears to be make the phone as simple as possible for a basic user, and that's it. for a hefty price tag! The app also froze, and i received a force close message on screen informing me that georgie had terminated. i then had to reactivate it via my home button. that, by the way was when i tried to access the georgie news option. this option is meant to provide you with the latest updates from the world of georgie, i have visions of them providing georgie with his own personal blog! there are after all pages on facebook for pets. nothing wrong with that of course... but? anyway back to the point. And now on to my final point. the contacts app, call/phone app, messaging app, colour recogniser app, and even the OCR app using google goggles all have free alternatives. Google maps are a lot better now and its becoming easier to find your location, to navigate to places, to find local places of interest, and its all free! even if you do pourchase mobile accessibility, at least you can use it outside its own homescreen if you wish! What would then prompt me to buy this. I would buy it if i had a really basic android user in mind, though i'd first try my very hardest to go the free/lower cost root not because i'm stingy, but a lot of the time people don't have money to burn and also there are apps out there that do the job. the eyes free shell home screen is perfectly customisable and allows you to make things as simple as they could be for someone by adding/removing the apps the user has access to. Mobile accessibility is basic enough for most people. Also, if my client just wanted a basic phone, basic second hand and brand new nokia symbian phones abound on the internet. the haven phone could also be imported to the UK, and i saw a phone that spoke the numbers dialed for £15 in tesco the other day. The only reason i would personally spend any money on this application is the OCR capability, and possibly the audio book/talking newspaper ability though at that price, do we get a free subscription to the services in question? perhaps we should? the pricing model is also unclear. they state that £150 will get you the default apps. now as far as i know, that's just the basic apps, dialer, messaging, contacts, georgie news and help, the phone dialer, and the call log. mobile accessibility offers all this and more for almost a third of the price! yes MA isn't perfect but that's not the point, who is? £25 extra each for the lifestile and communications apps doesn't net you much. the audio books app, the camera app, again a free alternative available, OCR, tweet by voice, ask any question by voice anyone ever heard of freely available jeanie? talking newspapers, podcasts, and lets not forget the amazing voice blog. If anyone wants to hear me singing in the shower, please let me know! the potential is amazing isn't it? the sarcasm is partly intentional, sorry i'll stop it now... So, from this hotchpotch email, a conclusion: the app is very over priced, even code factory who i expected to charge a lot more for their app haven't charged much at all, its even available stripped down in the US for free. If users have free alternatives and are only paying for simplicity which can be achieved with selection of a few choice free/low paid apps, what will compell people to buy this? now if they'd included a turn by turn navigation aid like wayfinder for symbian if anyone remembers that, that would've impressed me. I really hope that the company does well, though there's still a long way to go. I hope it does not go the same way as thunder i.e get knocked out by an open source, free! effort like NVDA. I never really managed to achieve much with the thunder screen reader, it was rather embarrassing when atempting to demo it as part of training a few years ago it kept crashing. we couldn't even get it to read out word documents or the web in a satisfactory manner. As i have already said the opinions i express above are just based on early findings. A lot could change over the next 2 weeks. I may end up loving? georgie, though i doubt i'll be paying for it. If i've been harsh on the developers, it wasn't intentional. the georgie app only has a 2.2 star rating on the play store, and the majority of the reviews are from those that are experiencing frustration using the application. some can't get it to work though this could be user error. i wonder how many phones they tested this on? From a business standpoint, if you set the right price people will buy your product, set it too high and they'll turn to other sollutions. £300 with a handset included? a Nokia C5 with talks costs £100, a basic handset like the sony experia pro with icecream sandwitch which is totally accessible would only cost £180 at the most. finally, i'd like to round things off by quoting a comment from someone called justin on the eyes-free list with which i agree. i hope you don't mind me quoting you justin, though i don't know you personally. Justin <justinmacleod@xxxxxxxxxxx> Aug 01 10:06PM +0100 That's what I think is so scandalous. They are indeed targeting older people and those who are less up to speed with computers, those who don't know better or those that can't, for whatever reason, cope with the free, cheeperalternative that actually does more. Why should they have to pay more forless? Anyway, it would be great to hear people's experiences. If i'm wrong about anything in this email, i'll gladly stand corrected and i'm still giving georgie a fair chance. People are also welcome to write to me off list, mobeeniqbal@xxxxxxxxx is where you'll find me. Its taken the best part of 2 hours to write this, anyone for a cup of tea? 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