[access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion

  • From: "Richard Godfrey-McKay" <richard@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:34:57 +0100

Steve, That's surely a matter of choice! 
 


Richard 

Richard Godfrey-McKay

Telephone: 01738-445 880

Mobile: 07791 452 593


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 02 August 2012 16:35
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion

Hi Chris,

The point though, which I think is very well taken, is why should less tech
savvy people pay more for something that does essentially much less.

All the best

Steve
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Chris Moore
Sent: 02 August 2012 16:07
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion

Perhaps the product is not aimed at us?

Look we are all here chatting via email etc which assumes most of you are
tech savvy or have a good degree of basic  computer / technical skills.
Perhaps the product is aimed at people who just would not have a clue when
it comes to using a smart phone such as the elderly.  It is a fact that
smart phones or super smart phones as they seem to be called now, are out
selling the types of phones which have keyboards and/or number keypads.
Eventually the market maybe dominated with touch screen phones and what is
left might not be accessible to blind users.  At least Georgie will provide
a very basic easy option for people who are not tech savvy and/or scared off
by touch devices etc.  But at the end of the day, this product will enable
that market, and that is a good thing right?

I am sure with feedback the product will grow in time and you have to take
your hat off to them for getting off their ass and putting it together, even
though it was probably originally developed for their own purposes.  Nobody
is forcing anyone to buy it and if you don't need it, then just skip over
it.  But I am sure there will be a few users out there who will gain
enormously from this product.

I have to be honest, it won't be me, but one day it might be someone I know.

Good luck to them I say.

Chris
On 2 Aug 2012, at 14:15, william lomas <will.d.lomas@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> i just think it showing what pathetic products blind people r expected 
> to
use; as android has a whole suite of apps why do you need this set and the
price what was it, 150 gbp? if you are prepared to learn georgie then learn
the android it like mobile accessibility for android, you have its own suite
but then when you go outside of it you have to use the keyboard of the phone
if you have one anyway whereas the talk back and other products just work :)
> 
> On 2 Aug 2012, at 13:05, Eleanor Burke <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> 
>> I wouldn't mind but my guide dogs, currently Neela, does not bark 
>> *smile*
so why the barking?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Cairns"
<jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:17 AM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi Mo
>>> 
>>> I read your very interesting message on the BCAB list which Colin 
>>> Howard posted, presumably on your behalf.
>>> 
>>> I'll say here what I said there.  Personally I feel it is 
>>> reinventing
the
>>> wheel.  I think it is taking advantage of those who perhaps haven't 
>>> had
the
>>> opportunity to really try out Android or Apple to see whether they 
>>> can really master those operating systems.  But, as you say, time will
tell.
>>> 
>>> I'm afraid that the barking made me cringe.  Do we really have to 
>>> have
these
>>> stupid sounds incorporated into "blind" products?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> 
>>> Jackie Cairns
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf
Of
>>> Mobeen Iqbal
>>> Sent: 02 August 2012 00:02
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>> 
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> The georgie developers have finally seen fit to provide a trial on 
>>> the google play store, all be it a 14 day trial. I have included a 
>>> link
below,
>>> as well as my initial findings. The following is just my opinion and 
>>> i
do
>>> not intend to start a debate on list, but it would be interesting to 
>>> see what others think.
>>> 
>>>
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.screenreader.Georgie&featu
>>> re=search_result
>>> 
>>> Main app interface: the first criticism i have is the fact that all 
>>> navigation has to be acomplished via a touch screen. Trying on a 
>>> samsung galaxy pro, i could not click any of the controls via the 
>>> keyboard even though they are recognised as buttons. I could also 
>>> not dial a phone
number
>>> via the keyboard, something i was very very surprised at!
>>> something so simple that's been around for years has been over looked?
>>> this is probably because you have to hover over each item on the 
>>> screen
with
>>> your finger. on to my next point. it took me a while to figure out 
>>> that
you
>>> have to hover over a certain icon for 2 seconds or more until a tone 
>>> is heard, then lift your finger to activate it. being used to the 
>>> double
tap
>>> system normally used in android, this came as a little qwerk i 
>>> could've
done
>>> with out, though i can see the logic behind it i guess.
>>> The logic being cut out the need to tap the icon twice and risk 
>>> hitting another icon while you're at it. Also, i would've liked the 
>>> ability to
turn
>>> off the dog barking sound when the app is launched, and every time 
>>> you return to the home screen from outside the app. nothing against 
>>> guide
dogs,
>>> but it could be a bit of an embarrassment in public places!
>>> Also, my phone really started lagging, something its never done with
other
>>> applications no matter how many i've had installed at any one time.
while
>>> i'm writing this, the phone's completely crashed, i'll go on to the 
>>> apps when it reboots.
>>> 
>>> On to the apps:
>>> 
>>> Now my battery's back in and the thing's booted, by default, you can 
>>> try out all the apps in the trial. i liked the fact you can adjust 
>>> screen contrast/colours, and also the simplicity of the interface. 
>>> there needs to be more user input in to what can be configured/added 
>>> for the price, i can see this being aimed at a minority market 
>>> relating specifically to the elderly or motor impaired.
>>> 
>>> I did not like the fact that the volume rocker is taken over by the 
>>> software. there are meant to be 3 pages, each page containing the 
>>> various apps in various catagories. The volume rocker, instead of 
>>> allowing you to alter the volume of the app in realtime cycles 
>>> through the various pages. it also appears to unlock the phone when 
>>> its been locked, something which i wasn't too impressed with. on 
>>> android, its standard practis that all buttons are locked and the 
>>> power button plus jesture is used to unlock. page1 has your standard 
>>> apps, messaging dialer etc, page 2 goes on to OCR, colour 
>>> recognition etc, page 3 is thankfully nothing rood, its your 
>>> lifestile apps containing twitter, audio book services, talking 
>>> newspapers etc. I would've apreciated it if the developers had 
>>> enabled scroling so you could scrole to page 2/3, or again provided 
>>> a setting to switch between various modes for various functions i.e 
>>> the ability to turn things on and off, or use alternative jestures for
commands.
>>> 
>>> I am going to be using the software over the next 2 weeks, so may 
>>> post further findings. Also if people request, i may consider doing 
>>> an audio demo all be it opinionated giving each app a chance, to 
>>> save people installing it. I would also have liked to see tighter 
>>> integration with google maps. At the moment, yes you can find out 
>>> where your nearest bus stop is, taxi information, but you don't 
>>> appear to be able to send these to google maps to navigate to the
destination in mind.
>>> 
>>> The voice applications also appear, or may rely on the internet. I 
>>> haven't tested the application offline yet with no internet 
>>> connection, but suspect that because of past experience, the phone 
>>> will be sending what ever you say, dictated text messages, numbers, 
>>> etc to google's servers then back to your phone. Any android user 
>>> using this app may wish they were on some kind of data plan if this is
the case.
>>> 
>>> I have also tried the colour recogniser application. ironically, a 
>>> freely available talking colour application from the android market, 
>>> Colour ID,  produced better results than their app! Their app just 
>>> stated my teashirt colour as black, the colour ID app was kind 
>>> enough to be more specific and tell me that it was brownish black, 
>>> and that the colour of my door was grey.
>>> 
>>> The OCR app appeared to be doing something, though it requires the 
>>> user to have the phone level, i.e as if resting flat on a desk 
>>> before it'll scan. this could proove to be an issue if reading a 
>>> sign/business information that isn't necessarily on a flat surface. 
>>> oh dear, where's the gents? i'm getting desperate now!
>>> 
>>> You can configure settings remotely for georgie via the web, or 
>>> sight and sound can do this for you. i'm not comfortable with this
approach.
>>> I'd like to know how secure the remote access app used is? is it 
>>> encrypted? how safe is user data? Privacy is at risk, what if they 
>>> can read your text messages? one user complained that sight and 
>>> sound or someone sent him an unsolicited text message because he 
>>> posted a bad review! this could be a error/over reaction or mistake  
>>> on his part, but? i've installed this on a handset i'm not bothered 
>>> about but i'd be hesitant to install this on a handset i'm using for
daily use.
>>> 
>>> I would've liked to see inclusion of an email application, as well 
>>> as a web browser of some kind. georgie at present won't support this 
>>> at present so you'd have to use talkback to surf the web.
>>> 
>>> I also couldn't find an option to access the rest of the phone's 
>>> settings, though i haven't customised it or atempted to unlock 
>>> advanced settings if any are available. apparently you can control 
>>> what the user can do on the phone and provide/limit access to 
>>> certain functions, so we'll see if in the next few days i unlock this
supposed functionality.
>>> An option to access the android market or the app draw would've been 
>>> nice, though again this doesn't appear to be their aim. their aim 
>>> appears to be make the phone as simple as possible for a basic user, 
>>> and that's it. for a hefty price tag! The app also froze, and i 
>>> received a force close message on screen informing me that georgie had
terminated.
>>> i then had to reactivate it via my home button. that, by the way was 
>>> when i tried to access the georgie news option. this option is meant 
>>> to provide you with the latest updates from the world of georgie, i 
>>> have visions of them providing georgie with his own personal blog! 
>>> there are after all pages on facebook for pets. nothing wrong with 
>>> that of course... but? anyway back to the point.
>>> 
>>> And now on to my final point. the contacts app, call/phone app, 
>>> messaging app, colour recogniser app, and even the OCR app using 
>>> google goggles all have free alternatives. Google maps are a lot 
>>> better now and its becoming easier to find your location, to 
>>> navigate to places, to find local places of interest, and its all 
>>> free! even if you do pourchase mobile accessibility, at least you 
>>> can use it outside its own homescreen if you wish! What would then 
>>> prompt me to buy this. I would buy it if i had a really basic 
>>> android user in mind, though i'd first try my very hardest to go the 
>>> free/lower cost  root not because i'm stingy, but a lot of the time 
>>> people don't have money to burn and also there are apps out there 
>>> that do the job. the eyes free shell home screen is perfectly 
>>> customisable and allows you to make things as simple as they could 
>>> be for someone by adding/removing the apps the user has access to. 
>>> Mobile accessibility is basic enough for most people. Also, if my 
>>> client just wanted a basic phone, basic second hand and brand new 
>>> nokia symbian phones abound on the internet. the haven phone could 
>>> also be imported to the UK, and i saw a phone that spoke the numbers 
>>> dialed for £15 in tesco the other day. The only reason i would 
>>> personally spend any money on this application is the OCR 
>>> capability, and possibly the audio book/talking newspaper ability though
at that price, do we get a free subscription to the services in question?
perhaps we should?
>>> 
>>> the pricing model is also unclear. they state that £150 will get you 
>>> the default apps. now as far as i know, that's just the basic apps, 
>>> dialer, messaging, contacts, georgie news and help, the phone 
>>> dialer, and the call log. mobile accessibility offers all this and 
>>> more for almost a third of the price! yes MA isn't perfect but 
>>> that's not the point, who is? £25 extra each for the lifestile and 
>>> communications apps doesn't net you much. the audio books app, the 
>>> camera app, again a free alternative available, OCR, tweet by voice, 
>>> ask any question by voice anyone ever heard of freely available 
>>> jeanie? talking newspapers, podcasts, and lets not forget the 
>>> amazing voice blog. If anyone wants to hear me singing in the 
>>> shower, please let me know! the potential is amazing isn't it? the
sarcasm is partly intentional, sorry i'll stop it now...
>>> 
>>> So, from this hotchpotch email, a conclusion: the app is very over 
>>> priced, even code factory who i expected to charge a lot more for 
>>> their app haven't charged much at all, its even available stripped 
>>> down in the US for free. If users have free alternatives and are 
>>> only paying for simplicity which can be achieved with selection of a 
>>> few choice free/low paid apps, what will compell people to buy this? 
>>> now if they'd included a turn by turn navigation aid like wayfinder 
>>> for symbian if anyone remembers that, that would've impressed me. I 
>>> really hope that the company does well, though there's still a long 
>>> way to go. I hope it does not go the same way as thunder i.e get 
>>> knocked out by an open source, free!  effort like NVDA. I never 
>>> really managed to achieve much with the thunder screen reader, it 
>>> was rather embarrassing when atempting to demo it as part of 
>>> training a few years ago it kept crashing. we couldn't even get it 
>>> to read out word documents or the web in a satisfactory
manner.
>>> 
>>> As i have already said the opinions i express above are just based 
>>> on early findings. A lot could change over the next 2 weeks. I may 
>>> end up loving? georgie, though i doubt i'll be paying for it. If 
>>> i've been harsh on the developers, it wasn't intentional. the 
>>> georgie app only has a 2.2 star rating on the play store, and the 
>>> majority of the reviews are from those that are experiencing 
>>> frustration using the application. some can't get it to work though 
>>> this could be user error. i wonder how many phones they tested this on?
>>> 
>>> From a business standpoint, if you set the right price people will 
>>> buy your product, set it too high and they'll turn to other 
>>> sollutions. £300 with a handset included? a Nokia C5 with talks 
>>> costs £100, a basic handset like the sony experia pro with icecream 
>>> sandwitch which is totally accessible would only cost £180 at the most.
>>> 
>>> finally, i'd like to round things off by quoting a comment from 
>>> someone called justin on the eyes-free list with which i agree. i 
>>> hope you don't mind me quoting you justin, though i don't know you
personally.
>>> 
>>> Justin <justinmacleod@xxxxxxxxxxx> Aug 01 10:06PM +0100
>>> 
>>> That's what I think is so scandalous. They are indeed targeting 
>>> older
people
>>> and those who are less up to speed with computers, those who don't 
>>> know better or those that can't, for whatever reason, cope with the 
>>> free,
cheeper
>>> alternative that actually does more. Why should they have to pay 
>>> more
for
>>> less?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, it would be great to hear people's experiences. If i'm wrong 
>>> about anything in this email, i'll gladly stand corrected and i'm 
>>> still giving georgie a fair chance. People are also welcome to write 
>>> to me off list,
>>> 
>>> mobeeniqbal@xxxxxxxxx
>>> 
>>> is where you'll find me. Its taken the best part of 2 hours to write 
>>> this, anyone for a cup of tea?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for reading,
>>> 
>>> Mo.
>>> 
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