[access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion

  • From: Saqib <saqibh23@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:16:55 +0100

The Fact that this app costs more than the actual phone running android! Won't 
sit well with a lot of people on a positive note! At least it can be used on an 
android phone that doesn't have a trackpad. 

Sent from my iPhone4S 

On 2 Aug 2012, at 16:35, "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> 
> The point though, which I think is very well taken, is why should less tech
> savvy people pay more for something that does essentially much less.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Steve
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> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Chris Moore
> Sent: 02 August 2012 16:07
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
> 
> Perhaps the product is not aimed at us?
> 
> Look we are all here chatting via email etc which assumes most of you are
> tech savvy or have a good degree of basic  computer / technical skills.
> Perhaps the product is aimed at people who just would not have a clue when
> it comes to using a smart phone such as the elderly.  It is a fact that
> smart phones or super smart phones as they seem to be called now, are out
> selling the types of phones which have keyboards and/or number keypads.
> Eventually the market maybe dominated with touch screen phones and what is
> left might not be accessible to blind users.  At least Georgie will provide
> a very basic easy option for people who are not tech savvy and/or scared off
> by touch devices etc.  But at the end of the day, this product will enable
> that market, and that is a good thing right?
> 
> I am sure with feedback the product will grow in time and you have to take
> your hat off to them for getting off their ass and putting it together, even
> though it was probably originally developed for their own purposes.  Nobody
> is forcing anyone to buy it and if you don't need it, then just skip over
> it.  But I am sure there will be a few users out there who will gain
> enormously from this product.
> 
> I have to be honest, it won't be me, but one day it might be someone I know.
> 
> Good luck to them I say.
> 
> Chris 
> On 2 Aug 2012, at 14:15, william lomas <will.d.lomas@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> i just think it showing what pathetic products blind people r expected to
> use; as android has a whole suite of apps why do you need this set and the
> price what was it, 150 gbp? if you are prepared to learn georgie then learn
> the android it like mobile accessibility for android, you have its own suite
> but then when you go outside of it you have to use the keyboard of the phone
> if you have one anyway whereas the talk back and other products just work :)
>> 
>> On 2 Aug 2012, at 13:05, Eleanor Burke <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>> 
>>> I wouldn't mind but my guide dogs, currently Neela, does not bark *smile*
> so why the barking?
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Cairns"
> <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:17 AM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi Mo
>>>> 
>>>> I read your very interesting message on the BCAB list which Colin Howard
>>>> posted, presumably on your behalf.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll say here what I said there.  Personally I feel it is reinventing
> the
>>>> wheel.  I think it is taking advantage of those who perhaps haven't had
> the
>>>> opportunity to really try out Android or Apple to see whether they can
>>>> really master those operating systems.  But, as you say, time will tell.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm afraid that the barking made me cringe.  Do we really have to have
> these
>>>> stupid sounds incorporated into "blind" products?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Jackie Cairns
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of
>>>> Mobeen Iqbal
>>>> Sent: 02 August 2012 00:02
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>>> 
>>>> Hi.
>>>> 
>>>> The georgie developers have finally seen fit to provide a trial on the
>>>> google play store, all be it a 14 day trial. I have included a link
> below,
>>>> as well as my initial findings. The following is just my opinion and i
> do
>>>> not intend to start a debate on list, but it would be interesting to see
>>>> what others think.
>>>> 
>>>> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.screenreader.Georgie&featu
>>>> re=search_result
>>>> 
>>>> Main app interface: the first criticism i have is the fact that all
>>>> navigation has to be acomplished via a touch screen. Trying on a samsung
>>>> galaxy pro, i could not click any of the controls via the keyboard even
>>>> though they are recognised as buttons. I could also not dial a phone
> number
>>>> via the keyboard, something i was very very surprised at!
>>>> something so simple that's been around for years has been over looked?
>>>> this is probably because you have to hover over each item on the screen
> with
>>>> your finger. on to my next point. it took me a while to figure out that
> you
>>>> have to hover over a certain icon for 2 seconds or more until a tone is
>>>> heard, then lift your finger to activate it. being used to the double
> tap
>>>> system normally used in android, this came as a little qwerk i could've
> done
>>>> with out, though i can see the logic behind it i guess.
>>>> The logic being cut out the need to tap the icon twice and risk hitting
>>>> another icon while you're at it. Also, i would've liked the ability to
> turn
>>>> off the dog barking sound when the app is launched, and every time you
>>>> return to the home screen from outside the app. nothing against guide
> dogs,
>>>> but it could be a bit of an embarrassment in public places!
>>>> Also, my phone really started lagging, something its never done with
> other
>>>> applications no matter how many i've had installed at any one time.
> while
>>>> i'm writing this, the phone's completely crashed, i'll go on to the apps
>>>> when it reboots.
>>>> 
>>>> On to the apps:
>>>> 
>>>> Now my battery's back in and the thing's booted, by default, you can try
>>>> out all the apps in the trial. i liked the fact you can adjust screen
>>>> contrast/colours, and also the simplicity of the interface. there needs
>>>> to be more user input in to what can be configured/added for the price,
>>>> i can see this being aimed at a minority market relating specifically to
>>>> the elderly or motor impaired.
>>>> 
>>>> I did not like the fact that the volume rocker is taken over by the
>>>> software. there are meant to be 3 pages, each page containing the
>>>> various apps in various catagories. The volume rocker, instead of
>>>> allowing you to alter the volume of the app in realtime cycles through
>>>> the various pages. it also appears to unlock the phone when its been
>>>> locked, something which i wasn't too impressed with. on android, its
>>>> standard practis that all buttons are locked and the power button plus
>>>> jesture is used to unlock. page1 has your standard apps, messaging
>>>> dialer etc, page 2 goes on to OCR, colour recognition etc, page 3 is
>>>> thankfully nothing rood, its your lifestile apps containing twitter,
>>>> audio book services, talking newspapers etc. I would've apreciated it if
>>>> the developers had enabled scroling so you could scrole to page 2/3, or
>>>> again provided a setting to switch between various modes for various
>>>> functions i.e the ability to turn things on and off, or use alternative
>>>> jestures for commands.
>>>> 
>>>> I am going to be using the software over the next 2 weeks, so may post
>>>> further findings. Also if people request, i may consider doing an audio
>>>> demo all be it opinionated giving each app a chance, to save people
>>>> installing it. I would also have liked to see tighter integration with
>>>> google maps. At the moment, yes you can find out where your nearest bus
>>>> stop is, taxi information, but you don't appear to be able to send these
>>>> to google maps to navigate to the destination in mind.
>>>> 
>>>> The voice applications also appear, or may rely on the internet. I
>>>> haven't tested the application offline yet with no internet connection,
>>>> but suspect that because of past experience, the phone will be sending
>>>> what ever you say, dictated text messages, numbers, etc to google's
>>>> servers then back to your phone. Any android user using this app may
>>>> wish they were on some kind of data plan if this is the case.
>>>> 
>>>> I have also tried the colour recogniser application. ironically, a
>>>> freely available talking colour application from the android market,
>>>> Colour ID,  produced better results than their app! Their app just
>>>> stated my teashirt colour as black, the colour ID app was kind enough to
>>>> be more specific and tell me that it was brownish black, and that the
>>>> colour of my door was grey.
>>>> 
>>>> The OCR app appeared to be doing something, though it requires the user
>>>> to have the phone level, i.e as if resting flat on a desk before it'll
>>>> scan. this could proove to be an issue if reading a sign/business
>>>> information that isn't necessarily on a flat surface. oh dear, where's
>>>> the gents? i'm getting desperate now!
>>>> 
>>>> You can configure settings remotely for georgie via the web, or sight
>>>> and sound can do this for you. i'm not comfortable with this approach.
>>>> I'd like to know how secure the remote access app used is? is it
>>>> encrypted? how safe is user data? Privacy is at risk, what if they can
>>>> read your text messages? one user complained that sight and sound or
>>>> someone sent him an unsolicited text message because he posted a bad
>>>> review! this could be a error/over reaction or mistake  on his part,
>>>> but? i've installed this on a handset i'm not bothered about but i'd be
>>>> hesitant to install this on a handset i'm using for daily use.
>>>> 
>>>> I would've liked to see inclusion of an email application, as well as a
>>>> web browser of some kind. georgie at present won't support this at
>>>> present so you'd have to use talkback to surf the web.
>>>> 
>>>> I also couldn't find an option to access the rest of the phone's
>>>> settings, though i haven't customised it or atempted to unlock advanced
>>>> settings if any are available. apparently you can control what the user
>>>> can do on the phone and provide/limit access to certain functions, so
>>>> we'll see if in the next few days i unlock this supposed functionality.
>>>> An option to access the android market or the app draw would've been
>>>> nice, though again this doesn't appear to be their aim. their aim
>>>> appears to be make the phone as simple as possible for a basic user, and
>>>> that's it. for a hefty price tag! The app also froze, and i received a
>>>> force close message on screen informing me that georgie had terminated.
>>>> i then had to reactivate it via my home button. that, by the way was
>>>> when i tried to access the georgie news option. this option is meant to
>>>> provide you with the latest updates from the world of georgie, i have
>>>> visions of them providing georgie with his own personal blog! there are
>>>> after all pages on facebook for pets. nothing wrong with that of
>>>> course... but? anyway back to the point.
>>>> 
>>>> And now on to my final point. the contacts app, call/phone app,
>>>> messaging app, colour recogniser app, and even the OCR app using google
>>>> goggles all have free alternatives. Google maps are a lot better now and
>>>> its becoming easier to find your location, to navigate to places, to
>>>> find local places of interest, and its all free! even if you do
>>>> pourchase mobile accessibility, at least you can use it outside its own
>>>> homescreen if you wish! What would then prompt me to buy this. I would
>>>> buy it if i had a really basic android user in mind, though i'd first
>>>> try my very hardest to go the free/lower cost  root not because i'm
>>>> stingy, but a lot of the time people don't have money to burn and also
>>>> there are apps out there that do the job. the eyes free shell home
>>>> screen is perfectly customisable and allows you to make things as simple
>>>> as they could be for someone by adding/removing the apps the user has
>>>> access to. Mobile accessibility is basic enough for most people. Also,
>>>> if my client just wanted a basic phone, basic second hand and brand new
>>>> nokia symbian phones abound on the internet. the haven phone could also
>>>> be imported to the UK, and i saw a phone that spoke the numbers dialed
>>>> for £15 in tesco the other day. The only reason i would personally spend
>>>> any money on this application is the OCR capability, and possibly the
>>>> audio book/talking newspaper ability though at that price, do we get a
>>>> free subscription to the services in question? perhaps we should?
>>>> 
>>>> the pricing model is also unclear. they state that £150 will get you the
>>>> default apps. now as far as i know, that's just the basic apps, dialer,
>>>> messaging, contacts, georgie news and help, the phone dialer, and the
>>>> call log. mobile accessibility offers all this and more for almost a
>>>> third of the price! yes MA isn't perfect but that's not the point, who
>>>> is? £25 extra each for the lifestile and communications apps doesn't net
>>>> you much. the audio books app, the camera app, again a free alternative
>>>> available, OCR, tweet by voice, ask any question by voice anyone ever
>>>> heard of freely available jeanie? talking newspapers, podcasts, and lets
>>>> not forget the amazing voice blog. If anyone wants to hear me singing in
>>>> the shower, please let me know! the potential is amazing isn't it? the
>>>> sarcasm is partly intentional, sorry i'll stop it now...
>>>> 
>>>> So, from this hotchpotch email, a conclusion: the app is very over
>>>> priced, even code factory who i expected to charge a lot more for their
>>>> app haven't charged much at all, its even available stripped down in the
>>>> US for free. If users have free alternatives and are only paying for
>>>> simplicity which can be achieved with selection of a few choice free/low
>>>> paid apps, what will compell people to buy this? now if they'd included
>>>> a turn by turn navigation aid like wayfinder for symbian if anyone
>>>> remembers that, that would've impressed me. I really hope that the
>>>> company does well, though there's still a long way to go. I hope it does
>>>> not go the same way as thunder i.e get knocked out by an open source,
>>>> free!  effort like NVDA. I never really managed to achieve much with the
>>>> thunder screen reader, it was rather embarrassing when atempting to demo
>>>> it as part of training a few years ago it kept crashing. we couldn't
>>>> even get it to read out word documents or the web in a satisfactory
> manner.
>>>> 
>>>> As i have already said the opinions i express above are just based on
>>>> early findings. A lot could change over the next 2 weeks. I may end up
>>>> loving? georgie, though i doubt i'll be paying for it. If i've been
>>>> harsh on the developers, it wasn't intentional. the georgie app only has
>>>> a 2.2 star rating on the play store, and the majority of the reviews are
>>>> from those that are experiencing frustration using the application. some
>>>> can't get it to work though this could be user error. i wonder how many
>>>> phones they tested this on?
>>>> 
>>>> From a business standpoint, if you set the right price people will buy
>>>> your product, set it too high and they'll turn to other sollutions. £300
>>>> with a handset included? a Nokia C5 with talks costs £100, a basic
>>>> handset like the sony experia pro with icecream sandwitch which is
>>>> totally accessible would only cost £180 at the most.
>>>> 
>>>> finally, i'd like to round things off by quoting a comment from someone
>>>> called justin on the eyes-free list with which i agree. i hope you don't
>>>> mind me quoting you justin, though i don't know you personally.
>>>> 
>>>> Justin <justinmacleod@xxxxxxxxxxx> Aug 01 10:06PM +0100
>>>> 
>>>> That's what I think is so scandalous. They are indeed targeting older
> people
>>>> and those who are less up to speed with computers, those who don't know
>>>> better or those that can't, for whatever reason, cope with the free,
> cheeper
>>>> alternative that actually does more. Why should they have to pay more
> for
>>>> less?
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway, it would be great to hear people's experiences. If i'm wrong
>>>> about anything in this email, i'll gladly stand corrected and i'm still
>>>> giving georgie a fair chance. People are also welcome to write to me off
>>>> list,
>>>> 
>>>> mobeeniqbal@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> 
>>>> is where you'll find me. Its taken the best part of 2 hours to write
>>>> this, anyone for a cup of tea?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for reading,
>>>> 
>>>> Mo.
>>>> 
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